MacBook Pro 15 Retina : need advices !

[Ghost26]

Hi all !

I'm in the market for getting a new laptop.

To put you in context, I'm a student studying electronics. Normally, I know what I'm talking about ;-) lol

I work as a park supervisor. I could not get a better summer job since I can study while working ! Every day, I sits in the park, turn on my laptop and start coding, reading and studying. Being paid to study is sincerly amazing ! ahah !

So, I study most of the time in the park, on my laptop.

I also have a powerful workstation (Asus P8P67 WS Revolution, Core i7 2700K 4.5 GHz, Asus GeForce GTX 680 DirectCUII, 16 GB RAM, RAID 0 SSD, a beautiful monster) for long works and coding session. I also do a lot of virtualization with VMWare Workstation. In fact, I've built a virtualization concept which segregates each tasks in different VMs.

But, my laptop is an essential tool for me because I use it as much as my workstation. I'm used to carry it at school and at work. So usage is about 50/50 between my Workstation and my laptop.

I started learning the CUDA API and massively parrallel programming. I bought the Cuda By Example book ( CUDA by Example: An Introduction to General-Purpose GPU Programming: Amazon.ca: Jason Sanders, Edward Kandrot: Books ). My Asus UL30VT has a CUDA-Capable GPU in it, along with the integrated Intel chipset. So I setup everything for Visual Studio, install the nVIDIA SDK, and start programming.

Here comes the trouble.

Neither Visual Studio nor the nVIDIA SDK (which contains code samples) see the GeForce G210M in my laptop.

I searched a little over the internet and found that the integration of the graphics processors in this laptop is the worst kind of integration ever built in a laptop. The GPU switching technology is the "beta" version of the nVIDIA Optimus technology. The video drivers are more than obselete (197.xx driver version!!!!) and no more recent version is available, even with tweaks.

Absolutely no CUDA code would run in my laptop.

Sure, I could code on my workstation. But it's summer, and being stuck in the house basement while it's sunny outside ... sucks ... lol

And as I said, since I study most of the time (~90%) in my park, it's not very usefull to have a laptop that cannot do what you want anymore...

So I started my research to find a new laptop that would fit my needs. Easier to say than to do...

There is one month, Apple has announced the new MacBook Pro 15 Retina Edition.

I went in an Apple Store to take a look at these nothing else than piece of art.

And you'll guess it : I've fallen in love with this machine.

Thin, lightweight, good battery life, incredible display, amazing hardware. Everything on this laptop is incredible. Even the price ..................

Sure, the non-retina display is also a good machine, but being used to an ultraportable laptop (pre-ultrabook fashion), I would like it to be has thin and light as possible. And the non-retina has less high-end hardware too...

Since I saw this machine, the idea of getting one haunts me!

I tell myself that I could do more shots with one rock. I could learn the OS X environment which is, according to everyone who has an Apple computer, the best working environment ever created. And since I do a lot of virtualization but never could do this with my ultra-low-voltage CPU, the MacBook would also enable this possibility.

More and more programmers are adopting OS X to code. nVIDIA has also said that the new MacBook is one of the best CUDA development platform.
( New MacBook Pros Make For Great CUDA Dev Platforms « NVIDIA ). Sure, I have a long road to go throught before being a real developper, but as you might have seen, I like to work on things that really work well.

So, the 2700$-question : according to you and all the details I wrote here, does a MacBook Pro would be a nice choice for me ?

For this price (in Canadian dollars, I live in Montreal, Quebec), I have the MacBook, the Apple Care for 3 years and VMWare Fusion. It's a 400$-discount that I get because I'm a student (200$ on the machine, 100 $ on the Apple Care, and a 100$ gift card to get the iWork Suite and other softwares if needed).

I've looked to other laptop manufacturers too. Dell offers the XPS 15, but it's bulkier, doesn't feature has much as the MacBook, and I would not pay 1900 $ for a "Dell"......... Lenovo makes great laptop too, but I don't know ... Thinkpad are sure the reference as business laptops, but are heavy and bulky. Maybe I've missed a model... The IdeaPad is a nice ultrabook, but once again, it's an Ultra low voltage CPU, so virtualization would be so-so I guess... And Asus has nothing really exciting avalaible at NCIX (the main Asus online reseller in Canada and also the online shop where I buy all my system components).

One other thing : with all non-Mac laptops, I'm at the "mercy" of the manufacturer regarding GPU drivers, just like my Asus UL30VT... Most of the time, the Verde drivers would not install and you get the very nice message "Please refere to your laptop manufacturer for drivers" ......... -_-"

I request your experience and advice to clarify my choice.

Thank you very much !!!



Here is the forum form :

1) What is your budget?

Money is not a concern

2) What size notebook would you prefer?

Used to be with 13" form factor, but could get 15" to be more confortable.

3) Where will you buying this notebook? You can select the flag of your country as an indicator.

Canada, at Apple Store or NCIX, BestDirect.ca, or directly from manufacturer


4) Are there any brands that you prefer or any you really don't like?

Like : Asus, Lenovo, Dell
Dislike : Acer and all sub-brands, Toshiba (feels cheap most of the time I find)...

5) Would you consider laptops that are refurbished/redistributed?

No

6) What are the primary tasks will you be performing with this notebook?

Programming, studying, reading, virtualization

7) Will you be taking the notebook with you to different places, leaving it on your desk or both?

Both

8) Will you be playing games on your notebook? If so, please state which games or types of games?

No games at all

9) How many hours of battery life do you need?

A good 6 hours

10) Would you prefer to see the notebooks you're considering before purchasing it or buying a notebook on-line without seeing it is OK?

Doesn't matter

11) What OS do you prefer? Windows (XP or Vista or Windows 7), Mac OS, Linux, etc.

I used to work on Windows and Linux, but could learn to work with OS X

Screen Specifics

12) From the choices below, what screen resolution(s) would you prefer?

The highest possible for confort and good programming

13) Do you want a Glossy/reflective screen or a Matte/non-glossy screen?

Doesn't matter, I'm mostly inside all the time

Build Quality and Design

14) Are the notebook's looks and stylishness important to you?

Doesn't matter

15) When are you buying this laptop?

Really soon, bored to being stuck

16) How long do you want this laptop to last?

The longest possible

Notebook Components

17) How much hard drive space do you need; 80GB to 640GB? Do you want a SSD drive?

SSD is my top priority for reliability and transport

18) Do you need an optical drive? If yes, a DVD Burner, Blu-ray Reader or Blu-Ray Burner?

It makes two years I have an ultraportable without any optical drive and I live with that very nicely

[R3d]

The rMBP seems like a pretty good match for you. Go for it.

[Kuroi-Tsubasa]

Woah, I could have sworn that I was reading an Apple commercial for the first few paragraphs...

For $2700, you're paying a lot for what is basically mid-range hardware (and the 1880p display hasn't caught on yet with many programs; only in-house stuff is capable of properly using 1880p now).

I've looked to other laptop manufacturers too. Dell offers the XPS 15, but it's bulkier, doesn't feature has much as the MacBook, and I would not pay 1900 $ for a "Dell"......... Lenovo makes great laptop too, but I don't know ... Thinkpad are sure the reference as business laptops, but are heavy and bulky. Maybe I've missed a model... The IdeaPad is a nice ultrabook, but once again, it's an Ultra low voltage CPU, so virtualization would be so-so I guess... And Asus has nothing really exciting avalaible at NCIX (the main Asus online reseller in Canada and also the online shop where I buy all my system components).

Thinkpads, heavy and bulky? This is new to me... My W520 (the heaviest Thinkpad of that generation) is only 5.95lbs (2.7kg), which at the very least is average for a 15.6" laptop; the less-powerful T and X series are much lighter.

Do realize that Dell (and HP and Lenovo) Business line-ups are completely different from their consumer line-ups; you can't compare a Latitude or Precision with an Insprion or XPS. Same with Ideapad and Thinkpad, and Pavilion/Ency with Probook/Elitebook.

One other thing : with all non-Mac laptops, I'm at the "mercy" of the manufacturer regarding GPU drivers, just like my Asus UL30VT... Most of the time, the Verde drivers would not install and you get the very nice message "Please refere to your laptop manufacturer for drivers" ......... -_-"

Umm no, no you're not. You can download your drivers straight from nVidia or AMD if you wanted to.

I haven't heard good things about Asus's customer support, so meh.

-------------


Anyway, for a lot less, you can get better hardware, better warranty support, and better build quality with a business laptop. If you want a small laptop, perhaps a Thinkpad X230 or T430, Latitude E6330, or something from the Probook/Elitebook line. Programming and virtualization doesn't actually require a dedicated GPU, but if you must have one you can check out the workstation laptops (W520/530, Precision M4600, Elitebook 8460w or 8560w).

It's much cheaper to buy a SSD aftermarket and install it yourself (same goes for RAM, which you might need a lot of). Also note that AppleCare is just an extended factory warranty: no NBD service, no accidental, nada. For the price of 3 years of AppleCare, you can get a better warranty through the mentioned business laptops. Latitudes, Precisions, and Elitebooks come by default with a 3yr NBD warranty, and buying one for a Thinkpad (3yr TPP) is cheap (I paid ~$110-ish for mine).

[excalibur1814]

Yeah this did look like an Apple lust story for a moment. How about a HP 8560w? Dreamcolour display, Quadro 1000m or 2000m cards, up to 32Gb ram, docking bay options, extended batty options... the list goes on. Perfect for VM work.

No offence to the Retina mac, but that display is pretty much useless on such a small machine and you'd be better off with a 1080p that's not dpi scaled.

[Ghost26]

Woah, I could have sworn that I was reading an Apple commercial for the first few paragraphs...

Lol !

After reading myself, it's more than true XD

For $2700, you're paying a lot for what is basically mid-range hardware (and the 1880p display hasn't caught on yet with many programs; only in-house stuff is capable of properly using 1880p now).

Sure, but this is tempoary problem since all the future Mac laptops and computers will have Retina display...

And yes, I admit, the hardware is about the same as other laptops...

So according to what you wrote, you would recommend me not to go with Mac, even with all the stuff I do with a computer ?

The main interest I have in the Apple computers is that they wonderfully support virtualization. More and more programers develop their code in VMs (I do) and more and more programers adopt the OS X environment.

Sure, you'll tell me not to follow them just to follow them, but I think there is real advantages of going to a MacBook ...


But you are wrong at something :

Programming and virtualization doesn't actually require a dedicated GPU

This is mainly why I must change my laptop, since a need a dedicated CUDA-capable GPU. This is the triggering event of my problematic.

How about a HP 8560w

I read too many horror stories with HP. They seem to get the worst reliability on the market. And sincerly, I've never sold a HP, and probably won't. Just a quick look to the user rating of this laptop made me feel sorry for them....

[KCETech1]

high gloss screen for outdoors use ........ not my idea of a good time

read too many horror stories with HP. They seem to get the worst reliability on the market. And sincerly, I've never sold a HP, and probably won't. Just a quick look to the user rating of this laptop made me feel sorry for them....

HP consumer stuff is not so good, their elitebooks etc make my Macbook Pros look like fischer price, and with MUCH better support.

Dell and Lenovo business class is great. Even I say avoid MBP-r and go with a Matte or liw gloss business unit.

[Ghost26]

high gloss screen for outdoors use ........ not my idea of a good time

Well, sure I will use it sometimes outdoors, but I would say that 85 % of the time, I'm either at school or inside a building. So it's not a real big problematic.

[Ghost26]

Even with 3 macbook and with all the details of my first post you would recommend me to get a HP or business class laptop?

I have difficulty to understand why lol. Sure, the warranty doesn't cover accidental damages, but in 3 laptops, I never had any accident or physical damage. Sure you will say that we are never aware of such a danger, but I can take the "risk" in exchange of a better product.

I've had in the past a Dell laptop. I know the support is great. But again, I only had to call them once, so my experience is limitated.

Never had a HP laptop. But keep in mind that I'm used to have a thin and light laptop. No HP (nor any other pc laptop) is as thin and light as the macbook.

The more I read and explain my usage, the more I consider Apple to be the best solution for me ... I need strong advice and details about NOT getting a Mac.

Thanks a lot.

[KCETech1]

7 Macs actually, and since 2009 they are catered more to basic user and dumbed down thats why I switched to workstations 2 years ago for video editing and work. yes I will take a hit on size and weight for battery life, performance, support and durability any day


ok lets break it down.

1: Kepler GPU's are nutered in CUDA ( much slower and glitchy ) 650 becomes bad choice.

2: 6 hours is rather debatable, I trued one for a week, the second the dGPU comes on bat life drops fast. you CAN get about 6 in igp if your careful

3: OSX does not use CUDA it uses OpenCL primarily, so expect to bootcamp and gave 3-4 hrs battery tops

for VM work etc i would still say go with a non consumer unit if the darn x230 had a higher res screen it would be my choice and if you could use a 12.5" 720 screen it is my choice.


from another tester, I have to agree with

Con's:

Poor battery life in Windows, 3.5 hours in actual usage (bootcamp). This is with low screen brightness and limiting the CPU to 33%. I was seeing 5.5 hours in OSX which is mediocre at best. I didn't run Parallels/Fusion long enough to determine what impact it has on battery.
Poor SSD performance; typical for a single drive, but MUCH slower than my Z2. This made Aperture slow with high-res images. Lightroom was marginally better, but I can process 2 GB of images on the Z2 in lightroom in about half the time.
Craptastic WiFi performance. Works better in Windows, but throughput poor.
Lack of integrated broadband (Apple: integrate LTE next time). And yes, carrying an iPAD or USB modem is too much of a hassle for me and I own both.
Using as a desktop replacement requires too many dongles and reboots (ethernet, display, etc)
Mac Office = dild0es
Runs hot, makes my hands sweat. This is a first for me and it sucks
Thing is just plain heavy
Magsafe2: I've inadvertently disconnected the power many times without noticing. The OG Magsafe flavor didn't have this problem.

fyi Sony Z is thinner and lighter. high res screen too

[Ghost26]

1. I have a Kepler GPU in my workstation. Sure, on double precision task, it doesn't perform as expected. But on single precision task, especially CUDA coded task, it's really good.

And keep in minde this is not to use it, it is to learn the API and massively parrallel programming.

2. Obviously I know that it the dGPU is active, the battery life will drop. Remember, I'm an electronic tech.

3. I don't care about OS X "using" more OpenCL. I repeat, this laptop is mainly to learn.


Sony Z has a RAID 0 SSD Configuration. Not surprising about the "SSD performance" quoted.

Lack of integrated broadband means nothing for me. I even don't have an internet package on my smartphone.

I won't use Mac Office. I will buy the iWork suite with the gift card.

It doesn't run as hot as described. I've read many many reviews on the MBPr and yes it gets warm, but not "hot".

As for battery life, Anand's review says the opposite : http://www.anandtech.com/show/6023/t...play-review/16


Beside, X230 from Lenovo is too small for confortable work, and doesn't have dedcated GPU option here in Canada (the webpage to customize it is unaccessible -_-" )


Just to make you know that, out of many Mac users I've discussed with, you are the first one which switched back from Apple to PC.
When you say :

yes I will take a hit on size and weight for battery life, performance, support and durability any day

Battery life : yes sure, you got an ultraportable laptop. Passing from 12 hours on my Asus to the average 7h of the macBook will sure be hard for me.

Performance : Equiped with latest Ivy Bridge, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD, I don't think you can get MUCH better performance with another laptop, OR, at least, significantly to see at human-eye the a difference.

Support : I don't know. Never had any experience with Apple support, but according to other users, it's quite good.