I'm really really confused! (Intel processors and xoticpc)

[Solid Eye]

Hi,

Please excuse my poor English writing

First of all I'm grateful for this community to be exist otherwise I wouldn't know there are a powerful laptops out there ... so thank you all

and also I want to ask about xoticpc are they really Reliable? and when I will chose to upgrade stuff like SSDs and placing thermal past are the good to handle it?!

because when I tried for the first time to purchase an Alienware laptop they told me that I should have a US credit card and it should match the billing info. so I started to look for meddle man to buy it for me and i stumbled on HIDevolution but the negativity on how they handle the laptops and most imprtanlty the time they need to ship it to you is redicoulsy bad so I looked furthr and I found xoticpc !

So tell me guys should I buy from them?

My technical Questions is:
Should I buy Core™ i7-3820QM or Core™ i7-3920XM Extreme Edition ?
which one can I overclock it i lil bit to reach 4GH?
does Core™ i7-3920XM Extreme Edition worth the extra 550$???

Also I'll buy dual GPU so should I go with 7970m or 680m?
but 680m is ridiculously overpriced but also i don't know anything about adjusting the registry to solve the 7970m problems especially in CF???


1) What is your budget?
2000$ to 5000$

2) What size notebook would you prefer?
e. Desktop Replacement; 17"+ screen

3) Where will you buying this notebook? You can select the flag of your country as an indicator.
Saudi Arabia

4) Are there any brands that you prefer or any you really don't like?
a. Like: Alienware, Sager
b. Dislike: all other brands

5) Would you consider laptops that are refurbished/redistributed?
NO

6) What are the primary tasks will you be performing with this notebook?
Gaming, gaming and gaming.

7) Will you be taking the notebook with you to different places, leaving it on your desk or both?
The main reason that I'm looking to powerful laptop is to replace my High-end desktop that I'm using when I'm going to study my MSc and PhD in UK and US starting from next October

8) Will you be playing games on your notebook? If so, please state which games or types of games?
All kinds of games

9) How many hours of battery life do you need?
Doesn't matter at all

10) Would you prefer to see the notebooks you're considering before purchasing it or buying a notebook on-line without seeing it is OK?
It's not OK to buy online without seeing it but what other choice do I've, here in Saudi Arabia there are no stores to sell these powerful machines

11) What OS do you prefer? Windows (XP or Vista or Windows 7), Mac OS, Linux, etc.
W7 of course

12) What screen resolution(s) would you prefer?
Maximum resolution out there

13) Do you want a Glossy/reflective screen or a Matte/non-glossy screen?
I don't know I just want the most colorful enjoyably screen I can get

14) Are the notebook's looks and stylishness important to you?
NO

15) When are you buying this laptop?
This month

16) How long do you want this laptop to last?
No more than 3 years maximum, most likely 2 years


17) How much hard drive space do you need; 80GB to 640GB? Do you want a SSD drive?
2* 120GB Intel 520 SSD in RAID 0 .. for storage I already have 4TB HDD in 4-bay enclosure with USB3 support

18) Do you need an optical drive? If yes, a DVD Burner, Blu-ray Reader or Blu-Ray Burner?
NO


Thank you for your time

[Prasad]

I've imported two computers (one, a Sager and the other, an Alienware) from the US to Bahrain so far. My first and greatest experience was getting a Sager from XoticPC! If you're worried about their reputation, have a look here. And for the record, you can't go wrong with Sager! Go for the alienware if the flashy overcooked looks are a criterion for you.. Oh, and not to mention, the Dell warranty.

Also, I understand you have a high budget, but I take it you don't expect yourself to spend pointlessly, ie. you are a smart high budget buyer currently in the market. If this is the case, then:
1. I'd suggest stick to the standard 3610QM CPU, as you won't have a clue on how to utilize the higher clocked CPUs with better virtualization support, if all you'll do is gaming and likewise. Gaming is not the kind of activity that any of the modern Intel Ivy Bridge i7 CPUs can't handle. In other words, forget 4GHz. Even the basic CPU will be fnckloads more powerful than anything offered locally! (Yes, I was in Bahrain less than a month ago and purchased a laptop from the US. Local selections were horrible.). Any of those CPUs are extremely future-proof, and can NOT bottleneck any of your games! If you're still pointlessly keen on upgrading, go for the 3720QM or the 3820QM. They can both be decently overclocked. The Intel Extreme CPUs are the flagship CPUs having a top-of-the-shelf premium pricing, and not in any way worth it.
2. I'd recommend a 7970M dual configuration. First, price/money matters. Second, he 7970M dual blows the 680M dual out of the water on the performance/price scale/ratio. After all, they're both very similar and comparable cards, real life performance-wise. nVidia 680M makes sense for the CUDA-hungry CAD developer, or to the foolish. It is just so simply, the wise thing to do. As for the driver problems, they'll be faced with any new technology that comes out whether it be from nVidia, AMD or any other. It is upto the respective companies to address these issues. Over time, both companies will distribute increasingly mature drivers that'll help resolve issues and the like, over time. For now, members of this NBR community would be more than happy to help you resolve any issues along the way.

[Solid Eye]

I'm more than grateful and thankful for your detailed reply, and allow me to quote some of your reply for further discussion:

you can't go wrong with Sager! Go for the alienware if the flashy overcooked looks are a criterion for you

I always look to the feedback from the customer and the frequent of the problem they have before judging any products, it seems the cooling system that Alienware are using is more efficient than Sager also not to mention Sager laptops doesn't support dual GPUs otherwise there price is rally really good

Also, I understand you have a high budget, but I take it you don't expect yourself to spend pointlessly

Of course I don't otherwise I'll buy without asking the whole point is:
I don't mind to pay a lil bit extra money if there a good come from it.. and that's why I'm asking about the processor and the graphics cards in first place to get best deal for Price/performance

I'd suggest stick to the standard 3610QM CPU, as you won't have a clue on how to utilize the higher clocked CPUs with better virtualization support

I'm not calling myself an expert but I did overclocking on my X58 chipset (before one of the idiots broke my whole system down ) and I did also on 3770k for my friend .. of course with some help from the internet but I'm a good learner .

if all you'll do is gaming and likewise. Gaming is not the kind of activity that any of the modern Intel Ivy Bridge i7 CPUs can't handle

I'm not saying you are wrong but I'd a lil experiment back then when I'd desktop pc with core i7 920 and dual GTX480 .. my Prolimatech Megahalems fans stopped working (from the dust obviously ) so I underclocked my CPU from 4.2 to 3.6 and I noticed some reduction in the performance... and i also read an article when the cpu start to effect on game performance and there were a chart with single and dual GPU and the minimum frequency that doesn't effect the performance was 3.8 GHz
All I'm saying is: if the 3610QM CPU can handle dual 7970m/680m 100% I'll buy it without hesitating ..

If you're still pointlessly keen on upgrading, go for the 3720QM or the 3820QM. They can both be decently overclocked. The Intel Extreme CPUs are the flagship CPUs having a top-of-the-shelf premium pricing, and not in any way worth it

My question is the 3610QM/3720QM/3820QM can be overclocked or the bios options are locked?

I'd recommend a 7970M dual configuration. First, price/money matters. Second, he 7970M dual blows the 680M dual out of the water on the performance/price scale/ratio

regarding price/performance you're right but purely performance we can't tell for sure that CF 7970m beat the hell out of the SLI 680m until we start to see more reviews and most importantly new optimized driver for SLI

As for the driver problems, they'll be faced with any new technology that comes out whether it be from nVidia, AMD or any other. It is upto the respective companies to address these issues. Over time, both companies will distribute increasingly mature drivers that'll help resolve issues and the like, over time. For now, members of this NBR community would be more than happy to help you resolve any issues along the way.

Sir, from personal experience I had HD 4870 and CF 4890 they give a nightmare with some games and ATI (back then) doesn't address the issue and release new driver until 3 -4 moths!
and with quick look in this form there are a lot of ppl complaining from there 7970m .. while users with card like 675m 580m..etc living happily ever after

again I'm grateful for your time you took to answer my thread

[Prasad]

As far as I know, Alienware has the overclocking options unlocked in BIOS (atleast for my 3820QM). If you want dual GPU, for now, Alienware is the way to go!

As far as your dual GPU worries go, that's precisely why I always stick to recommending a single powerful GPU configuration... Multi-GPU configs are just not worth the hassle, IMO... Atleast in a laptop. One can always upgrade to a new GPU a year or two from now that'd easily be twice as powerful as today's SLI configs. But that's completely upto you..
Secondly, let's not be naive here about AMD vs nVidia. I've owned countless products from both companies, and I can assure you nVidia is NOT run by an alien race. They're just people! They've for me atleast, from 2+ terminal nVidia failures in personal experience, fncked up more times than I could possibly accept. This is a forum with many people who are entitled to their opinions. But this one is mine. I'd trust AMD over nVidia any day of the week in half a heart beat!

Finally, with the CPUs, with every generation comes an alternate step forward of overclocking and die shrinking from the companies. We're currently at a 22nm process on the Intel Ivy Bridge lineup. This gives substantially improved room for heat management and battery life, not to mention performance. Remember that clock speed is NOT everything. Gaming is NOT CPU-Intensive, and I will explain why. Everything in a game is rendered which makes it 3D-Intensive, thus stressing your GPU. Only certain physics calculations, AI calculations, etc. use up the CPU. This amount is far too small to consider a CPU upgrade. It's only in gaming scenarios with over 4000 characters or so on a single map, that a dual-core CPUs performance would degrade! A modern i7 would be very future-proof! I got myself the 3820QM but not because of my gaming needs, but because I run far more CPU-Intensive tasks on my system such as Linux/Android kernel compilations among my other works, where every thread and every clock counts. Other CPU intensive tasks are video-encoding, massive number-crunching operations, etc. In other words, if your game performance degrades some day, I can assure you it won't be your CPU bottlenecking your performance, but your GPU.

Oh, and on a side note, I personally believe the Clevo/Sager cooling system is superior to that of the Alienware, atleast from what I can see and experience in front of me.

[Mobius 1]

I'm not saying you are wrong but I'd a lil experiment back then when I'd desktop pc with core i7 920 and dual GTX480 .. my Prolimatech Megahalems fans stopped working (from the dust obviously ) so I underclocked my CPU from 4.2 to 3.6 and I noticed some reduction in the performance... and i also read an article when the cpu start to effect on game performance and there were a chart with single and dual GPU and the minimum frequency that doesn't effect the performance was 3.8 GHz
All I'm saying is: if the 3610QM CPU can handle dual 7970m/680m 100% I'll buy it without hesitating ..


My question is the 3610QM/3720QM/3820QM can be overclocked or the bios options are locked?

Sir, from personal experience I had HD 4870 and CF 4890 they give a nightmare with some games and ATI (back then) doesn't address the issue and release new driver until 3 -4 moths!
and with quick look in this form there are a lot of ppl complaining from there 7970m .. while users with card like 675m 580m..etc living happily ever after again I'm grateful for your time you took to answer my thread

The 3610QM is a LOCKED processor, the 3720QM and 3820QM has a partial multiplier unlocked, 400MHz OC is possible. On Sagers, you have to use Throttlestop to change the multipliers, since the BIOS is not unlocked like alienware.

The 3920XM has it's multipliers unlocked and only limited by how much heat can the laptop handle

Both nVIDIA and AMD has problems with dual-GPU laptop solutions. I'd stick to a single card. If you have the money, pick the 680M over the 7970M.

[Mobius 1]

I'd trust AMD over nVidia any day of the week in half a heart beat!

nVIDIA driver > AMD Driver

nVIDIA performance > AMD Performance

[Solid Eye]

I can assure you nVidia is NOT run by an alien race

LoooooooooooooooooooooooL

Finally, with the CPUs, with every generation comes an alternate step forward of overclocking and die shrinking from the companies. We're currently at a 22nm process on the Intel Ivy Bridge lineup. This gives substantially improved room for heat management and battery life, not to mention performance. Remember that clock speed is NOT everything. Gaming is NOT CPU-Intensive, and I will explain why. Everything in a game is rendered which makes it 3D-Intensive, thus stressing your GPU. Only certain physics calculations, AI calculations, etc. use up the CPU. This amount is far too small to consider a CPU upgrade. It's only in gaming scenarios with over 4000 characters or so on a single map, that a dual-core CPUs performance would degrade! A modern i7 would be very future-proof! I got myself the 3820QM but not because of my gaming needs, but because I run far more CPU-Intensive tasks on my system such as Linux/Android kernel compilations among my other works, where every thread and every clock counts. Other CPU intensive tasks are video-encoding, massive number-crunching operations, etc. In other words, if your game performance degrades some day, I can assure you it won't be your CPU bottlenecking your performance, but your GPU.

finally somebody talk with explanation and reasons for his opinion.
you changed a lot of idea in my mind .. but I went to :
AnandTech - Bench - CPU
I see otherwise! CPU clock does matter!

thank you again for your quick reply know maybe I'll change my whole plan for my next gaming laptop

[Solid Eye]

The 3610QM is a LOCKED processor, the 3720QM and 3820QM has a partial multiplier unlocked, 400MHz OC is possible. On Sagers, you have to use Throttlestop to change the multipliers, since the BIOS is not unlocked like alienware.

The 3920XM has it's multipliers unlocked and only limited by how much heat can the laptop handle

Both nVIDIA and AMD has problems with dual-GPU laptop solutions. I'd stick to a single card. If you have the money, pick the 680M over the 7970M.

really good tip m8 .. thanks a lot

more and more Sager become the best choice to go with!

[Mobius 1]

really good tip m8 .. thanks a lot

more and more Sager become the best choice to go with!

I think you should go sager if you're trying to save some money, alienware does look nice but at a price.

[Solid Eye]

OK good ... let's start to talk about customization they offer for the unit (NP9170):

17.3" FHD 16:9 "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright LED Glossy Screen (1920x1080) (SKU - S1R506)
17.3" FHD 16:9 "Matte Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright LED Matte Screen (1920x1080) (SKU - S1R401) ( + 30 )
17.3" FHD 16:9 "Matte Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright LED Anti-Glare Screen w/ 72% NTSC Color Gamut (1920x1080) (SKU - X1R552) ( + 149 )
17.3" Sager FHD 16:9 "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright LED Glossy Screen w/ 90% NTSC Color Gamut (1920x1080) (SKU - S1R602) ( + 185 )

Which one is good? and what's "NTSC Color Gamut"?

XOTIC PC Professional Monitor Color Calibration w/ Spyder 3 Elite (Will add to Production Time) (Operating System is required) (XPC Service) ( + 49 )

What they ACTUALLY will do? I saw the pics and read the method but I didn't got it! how come there algorithm and programs change the screen color physically ?

Sager - 3rd Generation Intel® Ivy Bridge Core™ i7-3720QM (2.6GHz - 3.6GHz, 6MB Intel® Smart Cache, 45W Max TDP) (SKU - S2R202) ( + 160 )
Sager - 3rd Generation Intel® Ivy Bridge Core™ i7-3820QM (2.7GHz - 3.7GHz, 8MB Intel® Smart Cache, 45W Max TDP) (SKU - S2R203) ( + 350 )

The choice will be on one of these boys if the i7-3720QM will be overclocked 400MH without any overheating problems I'll but for sure

IC Diamond Thermal Compound - CPU + GPU ( + 35 )

They say it will reduce about 5 degrees .. is it true?

AMD Radeon HD 7970M (2048MB) GDDR5 DX11 [User Upgradeable] (SKU - S3R155) ( + 200 )
nVidia GeForce GTX 680M 4,096MB PCI-Express GDDR5 DX11 with Optimus™ Technology [User Upgradeable] (SKU - S3R406) ( + 495 )

Still wondering which one I'll take?

120gb Intel 520 Series Solid State Drive

Should I go with two of them in RAID0 array?

Sager - Built-in 802.11 Wireless B/G/N - Stock Wireless Card + Bluetooth (SKU - S8R110)
Sager - Intel® Advanced-N 6235 - 802.11A/B/G/N Wireless LAN Module + Bluetooth (SKU - S8R111) ( + 25 )
Sager - Intel® Ultimate-N 6300 - 802.11A/B/G/N Wireless LAN Module (SKU - S8R112) ( + 35 )
Sager - Bigfoot Networks Killer™ Wireless-N 1103 (3x3) (SKU - S8R056) ( + 60 )

Which one will be best? I heard a lot about bigfoot but I'm not sure is it worth the extra 60$ ?

Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Surround 5.1 Pro THX 24-bit External USB Sound Card ( + 99 )
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Wireless Sound Card System (Broadcast Xtreme Fidelity Audio from PC to other audio devices wirelessly) ( + 129 )

I think the stock system is fine, or is it?

Full Size Black Aluminum Notebook Cooler - Dual Fans - USB Powered (For up to 17" Laptops)( + 35 )

Or I purchase another one from local store?