MSI GT60 Barebone? Sager 9130? And TextWall

[Indivio]

So MSI GT60 Barebone vs Sager 9130

For my purposes of user upgrades, gaming, the possibility* of game/console emulation, and video rendering, they're both hilariously close to each other in performance in my budget of 1000 to 1150 (no I can't expand beyond this point).Some clarification could make this choice either easier or harder.

*= needs clarification

Both:
-User upgradeable in not just the hdd or ram, but in the cpu and gpu as well*

MSI GT60 BB (Additions: i5-2450 + Dual Drive& Raid.0):

Pros:
-TDE might actually work as advertised (OC CPU and GPU) and make emulation easier.*
-2 Drive Bays
-i5-2450 has a basic clock speed closer to PCSX2 minimum.
-Raid 0.

Cons:
-TDE is a huge lie, or performance boost is only minimal.
-No aftermarket option for Raid if I decide to opt out of the dual drive option
to lower the price.
-Going from 2nd gen i5 to higher rung 3rd gen i7 is pricy.
-Bulky looks (but it's actual weight is a nonissue to me)

Nit:
-If I planned to (not right now) use a 7970m, I'd need to buy another heatsink on top of the GPU or I could wait for an Nvidia equivalent (which I don't mind).

Sager 9130 (Additions: i7-3610):

Pros:
-More affordable 3610 option and by extension more affordable CPU upgrades
(using current CPU as fund in the future)
-Quad core should make the possibility of video rendering easier.
-Using the 7970m doesn't require another heatsink.
-Looks slick despite similar bulk to GT60.
-Branding can be removed.

Cons:
-Doesn't seem to have 2 drive bays.
-Lower clock of 3610 makes it less appropriate for emulation (unless there
is a way to take advantage of turbo boost).

Nit:
-Need 180 watt adapter to run higher end gpus (based on what I've read).*

Looking at my list, I could see it being kind of laughable, but the main attraction of these is the reported user upgradeability from the drives to the GPUs. I adore tinkering and being able to do so on a laptop adds some sentimental value, helps keep costs down, and allows me to
add more power as I see fit. I know people will gawk and laugh at the fact that I'm looking at the prospect of emulation on a laptop, but I've really grown to like emulators recently, but I'm not a huge fan of desktops. I know I'll have to run speedhacks and compatibility won't be as complete as a high clocked desktop cpu, but I have the actual consoles for games that just won't run, and I just like the idea of having all of my older console games on one portable platform. Also, provided TDE works as advertised, I may go with that even if the 2nd gen i5 makes the transition to 3rd gen i7 harder (larger price discrepancy).Though do know emulation isn't a huge deal breaker, it is a massive pro for me.The 2 drive bays are actually pretty cool to me, provided I want to take advantage of them in the future, but I hate the fact that I'll be locked out of Raid if I don't immediately go with a dual drive setup. The Sager seems to offer mSATA SSD as an alternative but that seems even pricier per gig, and since it looks like full size SSDs are (slowly) going down in price, the dual drive bay may be more economical.The affordable 3610 option makes the Sager attractive to me since the 3610 and 3720 are very close in price on ebay, and the 3610 would give me room to stretch if I want to do any video rendering. However, the lower clock of the 3610 makes it less of a possibility for emulation, unless there is a way to take advantage of turbo boost. Audio is also fairly important, as I am a enough of a casual audiophile to be put off if they're lacking. Provided TDE is a no go, its the clock of the i5 and the MSI's dual drive bay versus Sager's more affordable i7 and therefore more affordable future cpu upgrades. I know I make a point of the 7970m in my P/C list, but thats more to showcase my limitation in upgrading that area if I really wanted to max it out, and its null once Nvidia comes out with an equivalent. So any opinions or clarifications to make me bend either way, or are my choices just so close that I can't go wrong with either?

[Mr_Mysterious]

About GPU upgradeability for the Sager...it's up in the air right now. The 9130 is compatible with the very latest graphics from NV and AMD. But there's a petition in the Sager/Clevo forums that's worth a look. As for your laptop purchase:

Overclocking is useless unless you have a good cooling system. IMO, Sager is better at cooling.

2 drive bays is useless, because even the Sager (and many other laptops) can use a hard drive caddy in place of the optical drive. Having 2 HDD bays as well as an optical drive adds to the weight of a lappy, and that's not a good idea.

RAID is outdated now that SSDs are here.

For emulation, a good CPU is a must. I think most people would agree that a quad core with lower clock speed is better than a dual core with higher clock speed. That is, if the emulation software takes advantage of hyperthreading and multi core usage, of course.

Hope I helped,
Mr. Mysterious

[Indivio]

As far as cooling is concerned, both laptops seemed to have received ovation for just how chill they can be.

I'm not going to call 2 drive bays useless, as I still make use of optical/physical media, and I'm one of those people who find laptops to be generally light unless they reach an excess of 9+ pounds. A fully loaded GT60 on Xotic pc is only a little heavier than my current laptop, and outside of carrying around the house and bringing it to a friend's place I doubt I'd ever bring it out into the wild, especially since laptops of this caliber don't have the battery life to last in those situations.

As far as RAID is concerned, you've somewhat supported my suspicion that the speed increase from a possible SSD in the future could make it redundant, if not pointless (depending on the user). I can't say that I can take advantage of RAID, and a basic SSD+HDD is probably good enough for me, and if anything can lower the MSI's overall price. The only reason I worry about it is that (based on what I've read) if I don't go with a dual drive set-up I'll be locked out of RAID should I ever desire to use it, unless MSI has a change of heart and gives users an after market option.

In terms of emulators, I should probably clarify that I'm talking about game/console emulators like PCSX2(PS2) or Dolphin(GC/Wii), which generally favor the highest clock possible (2.66 Ghz min on PCSX2) over number of cores as both run only on 2 cores. For that very reason, most usually scoff at the idea of these emulators on laptops, but with a number of speedhacks enabled, my current laptop can almost get there but is honestly just too slow. This is also the reason for my interest in MSI's TDE feature, but there's very little documented use of it outside of some very vague youtube videos.

I'd also like to take this chance to reiterate that while game/console emulation is a fairly huge deal to me, but it isn't a deal breaker due the general opinion of such emulators on laptops. My main concern overall is user upgradeability, and both of these are nearly equal save for RAID support and 2 drive bays in the MSI (which I don't know if I'll take advantage of), and very affordable 3rd gen i7 in the Sager.

I mean looking at this evaluation, I've just noticed all of the aftermarket options available to the MSI, but the affordable 3rd gen i7 upgrade is a pretty huge plus for the Sager. If it's also possible to take advantage of Turbo Boost to bring it to a clock closer to the recommended clock speed of 3.0 Ghz for PCSX/Dolphin emulators, that could push me over the edge, and I can hold out until I feel the need for a new CPU. It's lowest price on ebay is very similar to the lowest price of the 3720qm, making the cost of transition very low compared to the 2nd gen i5 to 3720qm discrepancy of 100 to 200 dollars at least, and 550+ dollars at most. Also, provided that I do pick up a Sager, it'd be cool if I had bios support for future hardware (though MSI modders have gotten away with a 7970m in a 16f2 with no bios support) so I've signed that petition bro.

[Mr_Mysterious]

I use an SSD+HDD Combo and I still use my Optical drive (though it's now external, but still works perfectly fine) all the time.

Since weight is not that much of a problem for you, you might as well go for the 9170, since that has 2 HDD bays as well (RAID support too, since you love it), and a nice big 17" screen.

And since you know more about emulation than me, go for the highest clockspeed+turboboost that you can find. Hopefully that will translate to better performance.

Mr. Mysterious

[Indivio]

As far as going up to a 17" like the 9170, I don't mind but as its $200 over my budget, its pretty much out of the question, unless there
is an affordable barebone option. I know I make a big deal out of the 2 drive bays, but thats because its there for me to take advantage of, and RAID too if I decide to go with 2 drives on check out. Though an SSD+HDD combo can more than likely provided a huge performance boost over RAID anyway so I might not even need it.

Actually, lets just tune out that one of them offers dual drive support since I don't even know if I'll take advantage of that from the get go. That makes it possible to stuff an i7-3610qm in the MSI for about $20 more than the Sager. So the MSI is a bit more expensive now, but TDE (based on MSI's marketing) might make it a possibility to emulate PS2/Wii class consoles comfortably (to an extent of course). The Sager's advantage is a lot more concrete in that it currently has the cleanest support for the 7970m which seems to be the best mobile card out right now, versus the MSI which needs a new heatsink along with the card. Of course thats null to me if Nvidia pulls out a card on a similar level, and thats not because I prefer Nvidia, its just that its easier to put an Nvidia card into the MSI. I'd also like to mention that I don't really care about ATI vs Nvidia.

So if anyone can clarify on what seems to be my tie breaker: MSI's TDE/ Turbo Drive Engine, then I can at least make a more informed decision here. Overall both laptops fulfill my main desire (user upgradeability), but it seems to be a choice of greater number of internal options yet pricier aftermarket upgrades of the MSI, or less internal options though more affordable aftermarket upgrades of the Sager, which is probably a decision I have to discern for myself.

[Indivio]

So, doing some further research I've reached the conclusion that RAID is nothing to be bothered about, as far as my preferences go. MSI's super raid is nice, but considering the price of mSATA SSDs and my penchant to save cash while getting the best performance I can makes the set up negligible to me.

Also, I've found out that the build of the gtx 680m is different enough from the 670m packed in the GT60 that I would need to get another heatsink for it, or hope that the modders in the MSI forum can find a way to make the stock heatsink work for the 680m. I will say that mods just short of soldering don't put me off, and the mods for the 7970m compatibility are actually quite simple, but having to buy a new heatsink, the rarity of the needed heatsink, and then adding in the price of the card makes it off putting. The fact that this situation is a possibility for the 680m makes me favor what seems to be a cleaner upgrade method in the Sager 9130, where I can just get the card I want on the supported GPU list for the 9150/70 add the right AC adapter and get it working, correct me if I'm wrong. The only problem with the Sager seems to be, based on the petition, that it needs bios support to run new hardware releases, where the MSI doesn't seem to need it.

So thus far, while I'm not too hot on RAID now, I'm still in favor of the MSI's dual hard drive bays as that'll allow SSD+HDD without taking out the optical drive (I prefer to keep that inside),and since no one has shot down the functionality of TDE/Turbo Drive Engine and until someone does the MSI still has that in it's favor. However though I don't mind doing physical mods, I do take issue with having to source hard to find heatsinks in order to run new GPUs(along with adding the cost of those on top of the GPU), but I do like how the MSI can apparently run new hardware without needing bios support. The easier upgradeability of the Sager is making it a bit more attractive to me at this point, and I'll just have to sub an Hybrid HDD in favor of SSD+HDD (nope not gonna sacrifice that opt drive), but based on that petition, the hardware being limited by bios is a little off putting.