Good Value Laptop for a Student

[molecularman]

What is your budget?
Around $500. My goal is best value possible though so the price can move around a little.

What country will you be buying this in?
USA

What size notebook do you prefer?
Ultraportable (11 - 12-inch screen)
Thin and Light (13 - 14-inch screen)

What brands do you like or dislike?
Like: Whatever has good reviews and offers good value.
Would you consider a refurbished laptop?
Yes

What are the primary tasks you need this notebook for?
Web Surfing, Office and Productivity Software, Listening to Music, Computer Programming

Where will you be using this laptop?
Will be used different places

How many hours of battery life do you need?
5

Will you be buying online or in store?
online or in store

Which OS do you prefer?
Windows 7

List the screen resolutions that interest you:
Standard Resolution (1366 x 768)
High Resolution (1600 x 900)

Do you prefer a glossy or matte screen?
Matte is fine

Is the laptops design important to you?
No

Approximately what date will you be buying this laptop?
Around 08/20/2012

How long do you want this laptop to last?
2-3 years

How much storage capacity do you need?
160 GB

Are you interested in SSD for storage?
Maybe

Do you want a built-in optical drive, what type?
No

I've been reading threads on Lenovo and Dell business laptops but I'm not sure what to get. I have a desktop so I don't need a very powerful laptop. I want a laptop that I can use to read eTextbooks. I would also like to take math and chemistry notes so I was thinking about a tablet PC like the Thinkpad X series.

I do like extra benefits such as a backlit keyboard or a fingerprint reader but I don't think they are necessary though. I read some threads and checked ebay prices on the Thinkpad x200T and it seems like a good value laptop/tablet. The x220 has a higher resolution IPS screen though. I don't know if the x200 tablet does though. Would an IPS screen be much better for reading?

Basically I'm trying to find the best option that would allow me to read eTextbooks, take notes, and do other productivity stuff while still offering good battery life. I get add more RAM and an SSD myself. I'm willing to buy from refurbished or used systems to get better value.

[ZaZ]

If you wish to read eTextbooks, the X60t or X61t with SXGA+ LCD might be worth a look. They're five years old now, but given the usage, I think they're fine performance wise. My R60e, which is of the same era, is good for every day usage. The extra vertical real estate SXGA+ provides might come in handy and they're well within your budget.

The X200t used several difference screens, some better than others. If you're looking to buy a used ThinkPad, the marketplace forum on ThinkPads.com is a good place to start. They tend to be much more honest about the condition of their machines than say eBay or CL, which has a lot of value on a used notebook.

[molecularman]

I just checked out the x60t. I read multi-touch was introduced on the x61t. Does multi-touch offer much more benefit? Is SXGA+ just a description of the pixels or is it a better or worse quality panel than what is used in the x200t or x220t?

I have a few other questions. Would an IPS display offer a lot more benefit in terms of long reading sessions? I will be watching some youtube videos and I tend to open up a lot of tabs when browsing. Would an older system like the x60t be able to handle that? Does the x60t have good battery life?

I checked out the Thinkpad website and found this x60t for sale for $260 plus possible shipping.
"Based on 6363-CTO: L2400(1.66GHz), 2GB RAM, 80GB 5400rpm HD, 12.1in 1400x1050 LCD, Intel 950, Intel 802.11abg wireless, Verizon WWAN, Bluetooth, Modem, 1Gb Ethernet, Secure chip, Fingerprint reader, 8c Li-Ion, WinXP Tablet 2005

Minor outside wear, some shine on the keyboard/palmrest, well above average condition for ThinkPads of this era. No warranty left from Lenovo, but fully tested and guaranteed against DOA and to arrive as described."

How is the system at that price?

here is an ebay link for the x200t. x200 tablet | eBay

Would the x200t be a better buy in the $360-$380 price range?

I really appreciate anybody that can answer some or all of these questions. This will be my first laptop and I won't be seeing it in person so I want to be positive I'm making a good buy.

[knight427]

Buying an old Thinkpad with IPS screen is maybe better suited to someone with a little more experience. The cool thing is that you get a wonderfully built machine with a screen that's better than maybe 98% of new screens in most ways with enough CPU power for normal uses all for an incredible price (plus you get a real keyboard, not an array of buttons). But it is still 5 years old. Your chances of needing a repair are going to be higher. Now these machines do have a viable market for replacement parts, but this is really only worth it for do-it-yourself types.

For example, if you need a new mother board, and you can install it, great. If not, your laptop is essentially totaled (cost of repair > laptop value). Then again I get the impression that most sellers on Thinkpads.com are hobbyist doing it for the love of it. In the event of problems, you might end up getting way better service than your typical consumer PC warranty experience (assuming you are nice and not expecting them to repair it for free).

[molecularman]

So would $260 be a good price for an x60t?

I'm in a materials science and engineering program so I don't have a lot of time to necessary major problems if they occur. But I do usually get very into things so I would probably be spending a lot of time messing with the system anyway. I have experience with desktops. I just never really messed with laptops.

I just checked ebay and motherboard prices don't seem to bad so a fix would probably be worth it if it is eventually needed. Would the multi-touch features of the x61t make a lot of difference?

[knight427]

So would $260 be a good price for an x60t?

I'm in a materials science and engineering program so I don't have a lot of time to necessary major problems if they occur. But I do usually get very into things so I would probably be spending a lot of time messing with the system anyway. I have experience with desktops. I just never really messed with laptops.

I just checked ebay and motherboard prices don't seem to bad so a fix would probably be worth it if it is eventually needed. Would the multi-touch features of the x61t make a lot of difference?

Oh, if you've already put together desktops and you are willing to read a few things then I'm guessing you can handle it. Sorry, I was thinking this would be your first computer (beyond what was provided for you at school and home).

Also, I'm not up on x60t. I started researching a T60p for my wife, but she ended up not wanting to spend any money on a laptop for her. My only concern is the integrated graphics. I have no idea how strong Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 950 is, but it wasn't that long ago when people were recommending discrete graphics just for watching HD videos. I'd get an authoritative opinion on that before buying.

[molecularman]

Knight, I'm not sure about the integrated graphics either. I did see a youtube video of someone was watching videos on the x60t and playback looked smooth.

ZAZ, I found someone selling an x60t and an x61t. Both have SXGA+ panels. The x60t is being sold for $260 and has some signs of wear. The x61t is being sold for $400 and is apparently in "outstanding condition".

From the prices I saw on ebay these two price ($260 and $400) seem good becuase they have the SXGA+ panels and come with stuff like the 8-cell, stylus, AC adapter, and a windows tablet OS version. Do you think these are good prices? Would the x61t be the better buy? I could link or post more info on the specific configurations if that makes things easier.

[ZaZ]

It's hard to say. The experience on eBay can vary more widely. You don't know what you have until you get it. At least with eBay you can dispute it and you'll only be out whatever it costs to ship it back. Do you have a link?

[molecularman]

It's hard to say. The experience on eBay can vary more widely. You don't know what you have until you get it. At least with eBay you can dispute it and you'll only be out whatever it costs to ship it back. Do you have a link?

Here is a link to the sale on the Thinkpads site
forum.thinkpads.com • FS: X60/61 tablets, all w/SXGA+ LCDs, some w/onsite warranty

X61 tablet eBay links
x61t | eBay
x61 tablet | eBay

x60 tablet eBay link
x60 tablet | eBay

A lot of the ebay listings look have XGA displays. Most seem to be missing things like stylus, AC charger, or battery. The ones in the thinkpad site link have the SXGA+ displays that you initially mentioned. They also seem to have needed so additional costs aren't really necessary.

I don't think I would get a non SXGA+ display unless it was a really great value buy. I'm looking to minimize the price of the system because I still would like to add an SSD.

In your experience are these tablets reliable? Would they hold up without any major issues or is that more of a hit or miss type of thing?

[lovelaptops]

I'm kind of with Knight's original thought, especially when you mentioned that school is going to keep you busy and you don't want to have to spend time acquiring and installing parts in a 5 yr. old computer, which you need to be working in order to do your work. The Lenovo "Ideapad" Y series is available new and refurbished via eBay and resellers such as TigerDirect and you can get a new or good-as-new Y4x0 (the "x" depending on year and cpu series) for around $550-$600. The Ideapad's are not as robust as the Thinkpad series, they don't have the "legendary" keyboard and they'll just have a garden variety mediocre 1366x768 14" screen, but they're still pretty well made and will serve you well. They will run circles around the T6x series in any application and will be unlikely to fail and will go longer on a battery charge by 3-6 hours. I personally think the GMA of the T60/61 series is inadequate for even streaming HD Videos and potentially for modeling software you may use in your classes.

I'm not coming up with a lot of models that you might find either the 2010 versions as refurbs (an excellent value, nearly always perform as new at a fraction of the original price), 2011 Sandy Bridge cpus now phasing out such that you should be able to find what you want, especially if you can stretch to $600 as you indicated you are prepared to do. Every manufacturer operates an Outlet web site where they sell refurbs, close outs, "scratch and dent" and "open box" computers at as much as 50% of regular prices. Check Lenovo, Dell, HP business class, etc.

Ironically, you can get a much better machine at a lower price point in a 15" than below. 15.6" is the most popular screen size by a wide margin in the U.S. so the economies of scale drive down the screen costs and even chassis assemblies. If weight is the factor, you might want to establish your not-to-exceed weight and consider a 15 incher if it's 5.5 lbs which, by the way, is the weight of a Macbook Pro 13".

I'm running out ideas of specific models and sources, but I urge caution in purchasing a computer to start University with that may bog you down with both barely adequate performance and potential part failures that have "earned" their right to fail at their age! Others can chime in with models and sources of $500-$600 Arrandale i5 and SB i3 laptops that would do the job for the OP - as much as we all want to keep the TP "classics" in circulation!

EDIT: two sources of clearance and/or refurb laptops I just remembered are:

blinq.com (they are high integrity and have an unconditional 60 day full refund policy. Have close outs, "open box" and refurbs. Check often as they buy surplus from mfrs and dealers and stock changes frequently.

cheetahdeals.com is owned by the sole domestic authorized refurbisher of Acer and Gateway computers, which they sell ot the likes of Blinq.com and TigerDirect.com, but on the cheetahdeals site they sell some of their refurbs at retail. Now, I'm not suggesting Acer or Gateway as being able to "shine the shoes" of a Thinkpad, but I'm still thinking new or nearly new, Google the model to make sure it wasn't a dog, but you can strike gold here, as they also do closeouts at times. I got my first Sony Z11 there for $800 when they were still selling new for over $2,000. They also stand by their products and customers.

Sorry for such a long post, but you seem to be very conscientious and I wanted to add a different perspective. By the way, if you don't need this until mid August, you will be rewarded the longer you wait. By late July more than 50% of laptops will have "Ivy Bridge" Intel chips and that will cause the price of Sandy Bridge based laptops to fall and Arrandale-based ones to plummet. It's unreal to think the computing power and features you will be able to buy for $500-$600 by then. Lately the processing technology has been moving far faster than software that takes advantage of it so very few people "need" cpu/gpu power past 2010 electronics. The best bet is to get a decent Core i3 or Core i5 cpu and if you can, make do with Integrated graphics and that will drive your prices way down, perhaps enough to buy an SSD - prices for which have started to fall precipitously this year at long last - because that is the single most useful upgrade to make your laptop feel like it is truly "turbocharged." They also use less power, generate less heat, are not damaged if the computer is dropped and you won't believe the speed. There too, if you buy 2010/2011 SSD technology, you will probably be able to get 128GB - 160GB SSDs for only a little over $100. I can foresee you getting a notebook for around $500 and, if you can stretch to $600, replace the HDD with an SSD.

Sorry for writing a novel for a post! I think it's all useful stuff to have in mind, especially since you have nearly 2 months to make this purchase.