MBP Alternative

[TomJG90]

actually there isnt anything competing against the macbooks

they are thin, pack a punch.

all your options have either the serious of non sequitur issues:

bulky, present in all.
heavy, present in all.
gpu, underpowered, the only that wont fit that category is the thinkpad w series

off course the build quality is higher, in the case of the thinkpads, but as all pcs they do have a failure rate, they do have problems

Seriously since the envy series is not out yet, there is no competition to the mbp form factor.

They pack a massive overheating punch. All Macbooks especially 15 and 17 inch ones overheat and the new ones do it very well. Even the Envy 17 doesn't overheat that much. OP , your best bet are Hp elitebooks or Dell precision laptops.

[Crimsoned]

actually there isnt anything competing against the macbooks

they are thin, pack a punch.

all your options have either the serious of non sequitur issues:

bulky, present in all.
heavy, present in all.
gpu, underpowered, the only that wont fit that category is the thinkpad w series

off course the build quality is higher, in the case of the thinkpads, but as all pcs they do have a failure rate, they do have problems

Seriously since the envy series is not out yet, there is no competition to the mbp form factor.

All PC's have failure rates. Guess what? The MBP is a PC. However the build quality and warranty take care of those failure rates in business notebooks.

The business class notebooks from HP/Dell come with Next day warranty and Dell offers on site repair standard which means whatever needs to be replaced usually means a technician at your home or office the next day.

With a MBP your stuck leaving it a Apple store or shipping it, depending on several factors. Which btw out of 10 (even number, for the sake of statistics), 5 got repairs. Out of those 5, 3 had to be repaired over 3 times. Out of those 5, 1.8-2 were repaired 3 times within 2 month period after purchase (both of which were logicboard failures, including one being replaced and the replacement failing). Out of those 5 MBP's, 2.3~ came back with scratches or other aesthetic issues that were not present before.
I won't get into one were the guy basically got refunded against his will. The apple store's manager said: "We are refunding you, the macbook pro is not for you."

Let's not forget that those business laptops usually come after consumer products so they come time tested from generation 1.

Actually the MBP is not as thin you you'd think, it is about 1" thick (.03~ variance from 13"-17") and suffers from over heating problems. The M6500 Workstation from Dell is 1.3"-1.5" and runs stupidly cool (I never was able to push it past 75c~) on load.
Other workstations are around the same thickness as the M6500.

Battery wise, there are vastly other options offering upwards to 10 hours of battery life WHILE being superior to performance then the MBP.

By the way I work as computer tech, so I can pretty much tell you failure rates for Apple are very similar to other manufacturers but it certainly is not the worst. I can also tell you a MBP is not as durable to wear and usage as most people think it is. In fact I would say most ABS thermoplastic laptops fair better against bumps and short falls (2 feet)~. For falls closer to 4-5 feets or more, it's a complete crabshoot and the only laptops I have witness so far that can survive anything like that are Thinkpads and MAYBE the Elitebooks non workstations.

Just last week or two we had 2 Elitebook, one workstation one performance. Several thinkpads, and a I am unsure how many consumer laptops (perhaps a few dozen).

[CompUG]

what about Asus?

[Crimsoned]

what about Asus?

We haven't seen many Asus to be honest, failure rate looks to be low at around 10% (only like 10~ Asus thus far vs hundreds or thousands of other brands). So it isn't a very accurate number at all, in fact it is statistically unusable).

[KillerBunny]

Best bet on a MBP replacement would be a...

MBP

If not, the envy series is very close in size and weight and looks. Also, sony vaio series, not sure which one, but a lot of them are very similar to macbook pro style. Regardless though, you're going to save money from going to a MBP to a windows laptop, apple makes you pay a huge premium

^I agree with the man's statement up above. Mac's are not that durable. All my friends have macs, and they break down all the time from simple stuff like youtube and surfing the web, nothing intensive. I'm no IT guy, so i don't know much else.

[azndrake]

All PC's have failure rates. Guess what? The MBP is a PC. However the build quality and warranty take care of those failure rates in business notebooks.

The business class notebooks from HP/Dell come with Next day warranty and Dell offers on site repair standard which means whatever needs to be replaced usually means a technician at your home or office the next day.

With a MBP your stuck leaving it a Apple store or shipping it, depending on several factors. Which btw out of 10 (even number, for the sake of statistics), 5 got repairs. Out of those 5, 3 had to be repaired over 3 times. Out of those 5, 1.8-2 were repaired 3 times within 2 month period after purchase (both of which were logicboard failures, including one being replaced and the replacement failing). Out of those 5 MBP's, 2.3~ came back with scratches or other aesthetic issues that were not present before.
I won't get into one were the guy basically got refunded against his will. The apple store's manager said: "We are refunding you, the macbook pro is not for you."

Let's not forget that those business laptops usually come after consumer products so they come time tested from generation 1.

Actually the MBP is not as thin you you'd think, it is about 1" thick (.03~ variance from 13"-17") and suffers from over heating problems. The M6500 Workstation from Dell is 1.3"-1.5" and runs stupidly cool (I never was able to push it past 75c~) on load.
Other workstations are around the same thickness as the M6500.

Battery wise, there are vastly other options offering upwards to 10 hours of battery life WHILE being superior to performance then the MBP.

By the way I work as computer tech, so I can pretty much tell you failure rates for Apple are very similar to other manufacturers but it certainly is not the worst. I can also tell you a MBP is not as durable to wear and usage as most people think it is. In fact I would say most ABS thermoplastic laptops fair better against bumps and short falls (2 feet)~. For falls closer to 4-5 feets or more, it's a complete crabshoot and the only laptops I have witness so far that can survive anything like that are Thinkpads and MAYBE the Elitebooks non workstations.

Just last week or two we had 2 Elitebook, one workstation one performance. Several thinkpads, and a I am unsure how many consumer laptops (perhaps a few dozen).

Btw, I would never buy a Mac Book that's just how I stand at this moment in time, but the facts are facts and my experiences with seeing my love ones are a positive here is one by my Girlfriend:

My girlfriend has a Macbook pro for two years with an 3 year apple care warranty,for some reason the Wifi would not connect to my router at home, but my ipads and pcs would connect with no problem.

(btw, you get all these benefits for a year when you buy a MBP)
Therefore we went online and scheduled an appointment with the nearest apple store. Over there we checked in and waited for 3-5 minutes, the technician was very friendly troubleshooting (clearly trained), After finding the pinpoint of the problem, they fixed the software problem on site and by reconfiguring the proxy settings etc. Then he would go over what to do in a event this would occur again. He even did a overall diagnostics on the computer in which it all came up green, and turns out the battery only lost 2% of its value over two years of use.

The technician was a really nice guy you can see he really takes pride in working there. Its a fact Apple really cares about their service, true you are paying a premium for the hardware, but Apple always stated that their hardware is not always top of the line, BUT their software and service is. That's what you are really paying for is the experience not the specs. Think about where else would you find a brand that have on site technicians to fix your problems for free under the 1 year standard warranty? Not Dell, Asus, or even HP.

Also HP's workstation is TOP OF THE LINE!! i know this too due to my Gf's mom being a HP engineer, those things are so powerful and the screen contrast is so good, much better than AW. I wish she can give me her workstation because hp engineers get a new workstation every three years, that's how good it is. Its probably the best laptop out there in terms of quality and reliability for a PC.

[Crimsoned]

Well I am glad your girlfriend's Macbook Pro was a good purchase for her however consider weighing in more experienced user's opinions. Specially those who handle computers for a living. I mean when your sick, do you go to a doctor or do you ask your local neighbor to see what crazy remedy he can prescribe you.
While your girlfriend had issues and the Apple store helped her, which is a nice touch. Most if not all manufacturers would do the same. In fact I know Dell Business class would have just replaced the wireless card with an onsite technician the next day to avoid any further hassles. Personally I have worked with Apple before, while their support was good I have found that Dell's business class was far better. At my 3rd related issue with video (GPU/LCD was replaced. Then the LCD that was used was different, so that was replaced again. Lastly I had GPU throttling/lock ups. Laptop was replaced with a brand new unit. All they did was ask me how often it happens, and if I wanted a depot service or replacement.

Their software is hardly to of the line. OSX is critiqued for being the most unsafe operating system. The lack of clear type is absolutely baffling for the past decade. The fact you can break any user password in OSX without using 3rd party software at all. Sure it does have some neat features, however these features can easily be replicated on a PC.
In terms of multimedia and productivity software. Well Microsoft is truly generous for letting Mac have their suite.
Audio software was killed the moment Apple bought out the most popular Audio editing software back... Idk how many years. Actually most audio professionals end up using PC's or a mixture of PC and Mac with the PC's being the prime usage.
In video, I am afraid PC has got that part on lock down. While Finalcut is nice, and it does challenge and sometimes beats Adobe Premiere (mostly because of final cuts broad library of codecs). Once we talk Adobe Creative Suite, I am afraid Final cut begins to loose... massively.
In Engineering/Science/any type of heavy statistical situations, I am afraid the most popular softwares for statistics are PC only. Mostly because they can be very... very... heavy.
In Professional usage such as business. They are pretty risky to use. The risk of theft is quite high as any robber knows a MBP=$$$. Let alone all the security risks, and basically no protection for your data.

Their service is also hardly top of the line (but sure as hell isn't last).

You are paying for that service, personally most computer companies can offer you the same support with simple things such as setting up your wireless internet.

[csinth]

While your girlfriend had issues and the Apple store helped her, which is a nice touch. Most if not all manufacturers would do the same. In fact I know Dell Business class would have just replaced the wireless card with an onsite technician the next day to avoid any further hassles. Personally I have worked with Apple before, while their support was good I have found that Dell's business class was far better.

You're comparing business class support to consumer support. I've heard nothing but good things from everyone I know who has a Macbook and who has had problems. You won't hear the same thing from people getting Dell consumer level products.

Regardless, Macbook Pros fit all of these requirements:

- Thin
- Fairly light
- Macbook pro style keybaord
- Fairly good looking
- Sandy Bridge Quad core
- SSD
- Pretty good battery

I can't seem to find any other laptop that does.

OSX is critiqued for being the most unsafe operating system. The lack of clear type is absolutely baffling for the past decade. The fact you can break any user password in OSX without using 3rd party software at all. Sure it does have some neat features, however these features can easily be replicated on a PC.

It uses different font rendering, which doesn't happen to be clear type. "Replicating" isn't the same. You can't beat, for example, the interaction with the Macbook touchpad.

In Engineering/Science/any type of heavy statistical situations, I am afraid the most popular softwares for statistics are PC only. Mostly because they can be very... very... heavy.

You can get Windows 7 on any Macbook. Macbook Pros are pretty powerful.

Let alone all the security risks, and basically no protection for your data.

No evidence presented. Windows has just as many problems.

As much as I like seeing the other side of the coin, the rampant spread of misinformation in this post negates the opportunity for discussion.

[azndrake]

Crimsoned, your concerns on the MBP are rather alarming those are pretty significant claims you made after all. I would like to see some concrete evidence from any type of articles that supports your claims until then you are label as a very bias manipulator.

Also can you show me that he is using his laptop in a secretive business environment, because that is what you are stating, as i did not see him mention anything of that sort either, thanks.

Which makes me question your so called reviews:
HP Hell Experience #2, avoid HP.

Got an Envy 17- Post temperatures here!
Dell U2211H Review
Coolermaster Infinity Review/Disassembly

P.S. side note, my GF's friend's husband works as a engineer for a hospital, he just purchased a Mac book pro for $2400, which furthermore tingle's my suspicions about your claims.

[Crimsoned]

Crimsoned, your concerns on the MBP are rather alarming those are pretty significant claims you made after all. I would like to see some concrete evidence from any type of articles that supports your claims until then you are label as a very bias manipulator.

Also can you show me that he is using his laptop in a secretive business environment, because that is what you are stating, as i did not see him mention anything of that sort either, thanks.

Which makes me question your so called reviews:
HP Hell Experience #2, avoid HP.

Got an Envy 17- Post temperatures here!
Dell U2211H Review
Coolermaster Infinity Review/Disassembly

P.S. side note, my GF's friend's husband works as a engineer for a hospital, he just purchased a Mac book pro for $2400, which furthermore tingle's my suspicions about your claims.

1st of my experiences with HP were about consumer support in the thread you saw. I still wouldnt recommend HP Business at the moment since there are other alternatives (Dell/ Lenovo), however if it was between a MBP or HP Elitebook, I would have to recommend HP.

Your girlfriend's friend's husband is an engineer? May I ask what his job description is? Or what you mean by Engineer. For all we know he could be a technical engineer which means he maintains servers/computers etc.
My major is psychology, as was my sister was my sister's major, she took statistics classes were they utilized Windows only software. I've spoken with several Chemistry, Statistics, and a few other majors all have concluded the same thing: All statistics software are Windows based. My sister's own professor has his Doctorate (and a few other fields) in Psychology and he himself had to use his PC for his work, even though there are plenty of Mac's over at UNT. Just about any field of science requires statistics software for inputting data (unless you want to do it by hand?).

Lastly large companies like oil, medicals, and other soften use PC's as their main workstations. Mostly because the data they are working with would cripple even some desktops.

Design Professionals have little choice in the matter, from 2D graphics design to making special effects for movies. You need vast amounts of power to render 3D models, or even just 2D graphics (considering you will likely have more then 10 programs open to work with just 1 project).

What I meant by no protection for your data is that even with passwords on OSX, you can easily get those removed without having to use any 3rd party software involved.
There is no TPM, there is no BIOS level protection. No hardware based encryptions. Heck with certain Workstations you have an option of using a steel plate and locking the hard drive unto the chassis making it irremovable.
The closest thing you have to real security is Firmware password which can be bypassed by removing hard drives. Vs on PC were you can have what's called a hard drive password (drive level password meaning taking it anywhere=will not get rid of the password), if I am not mistaken such options are not offered on a Macbook pro.

Sure you can stick Windows on a Mac, however you loose significant battery life due to Apple not providing drivers for power management, not to mention stability.

I don't really have anything against Macbook Pro's, it is just A) they are over priced and B) Most people have misconceptions about them, making way overrated. It is rather sad what I hear when people talk about a subject they may know nothing about. That's why I keep my mouth shut about fashion, because I simply don't know much or even a little about it.