zBook G2 Owners - Alternatives to "Z Turbo Drive"?

Discussion in 'HP Business Class Notebooks' started by timofcourse, Jan 13, 2015.

  1. tommyxv

    tommyxv Notebook Evangelist

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    I re-ordered my Zbook 17 G2 with only a 256GB Turbo Drive and just the brackets for the two other drive locations so it must boot. :) It shipped yesterday and will be here on Wed.
     
  2. gablerm67

    gablerm67 Newbie

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    Hi
    I can give you some infos to the SM951. I can boot or install Windows 7 64bit only in UEFI mode. The SSD has some SMD chips on both sides. So it makes some smaller problems to close the compartment hatch on the backside of the ZBook 15 G2.

    BR,

    Michael
     
  3. Xaos

    Xaos Notebook Enthusiast

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    Hi Michael,
    Thanks for your answer! I guess you mean the Samsung SM951-AHCI (size 2280). This is the version1 of SM951 - The successor is SM951-NVMe.
    http://www.storagereview.com/samsung_sm951nvme_m2_ssd_review
    Because I didn't got an answer here last week, I've also orderd an Samsung SM951-AHCI yesterday. I'll get it in some days.
    (At the moment there is an supply-bottleneck with the newer NVMe-version and the older is cheaper.). That's why, I'm very interesseted in this SSD/your informations! I will also use Win7-64bit in zBook15-G2.
    I know, that 2280 will fit in zBook15-G2 - with a little work-around (=tape) ;-). UEFI is ok for me.
    --> Do you have the AHCI-version?
    --> Do you have problems in booting from USB-Stick if the SSD is build in, as another forum-member wrote some postes before?
    --> What read-/write-speed do you have?
    --> Have you tried image-backups from your SSD by booting from USB // e.g. with Acronis_TrueImage,....? Does it work?
    Thanks for your help again!
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2015
  4. aztec506

    aztec506 Notebook Consultant

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    This is a laptop thread. Go to a desktop thread if you are going to discuss pcie cards with storage.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
     
  5. Xaos

    Xaos Notebook Enthusiast

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  6. chris48

    chris48 Newbie

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    - I got the SM951 (AHCI, 256GB) for my zBook 15 G2. The 256 GB version is single-sided, no chips are at the back-side. There is no problem closing the latch at all. I put some tape over the SSD to fix it and protect it from the latch, though.
    - I did have some problems with booting from USB-sticks, but that was UEFI-related and had nothing to do with the SSD.
    - I didn't try image backups from USB, I cloned my HDD to SSD directly. I don't have an Acronis license and tried GParted and two other tools without success (GParted did not boot correctly, some other tool did not support UEFI boot from CD). Minitool-drivecopy worked for me.
    - My OS is Win8.1 64bit. BIOS is from late July, I think 1.08.
    - The speed is disappointing, I get around 700 MByte/s: reading a bit more, writing a bit less. It seems to be a limitation of the zBook, because benchmarks of the SM951 show it can go up to 2000MByte/s. Could you tell me your speeds? I want to exclude any issues on my side.
     
  7. Xaos

    Xaos Notebook Enthusiast

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    Hello CHris48,
    Thanks very much for your post!
    > I use to clone my boot partition very often. Normally/on my old Desktop (no UEFI / just Bios / but with AHCI) I boot from an USB and I use the (very, very old) program Symantec Ghost. It's very easy to use (Dos surface) and on my old PC it was absolutely reliable in backup/restore the whole AHCI-boot-partition. But I'm afraid, that it will not work with UEFI and zBook,... :-(
    > " .....The speed is disappointing....."
    Yes, altough I will get my SSD in a few days (at the moment is shippment), I've calculated with something. Also in this post:
    http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...-to-z-turbo-drive.769103/page-5#post-10047413
    user_JacekP wrote, that his SSD (PCIe 2.0) is also quite slow, altough it could reach much higher speed. I've hoped that "our" SSD is faster - because our SM951 (PCIe3.0 x4 lanes) is the successor of JanekP's Samsung SSD XP941 256GB, M.2 (PCIe2.0 x4lanes) and uses PCIe3.0.
    But your right: It seems very much that
    - ALTOUGH the HP's white paper of zBook17-G2 talks about support PCIe3.0 with ??lanes
    see page 13: http://h20195.www2.hp.com/V2/GetPDF.aspx/4AA5-4884ENW.pdf

    - IT SEEMS that the zBook15-G2 definitly just supports PCIe2.0 x2lanes:
    See the table in the middle: http://www.hardwareschotte.de/magazin/alles-was-man-ueber-m-2-wissen-muss-a41637
    Then the max. speed of 800MB/s is plausible!
    But ok. I'm no power-freak. It's ok and the SM951 is also usable in the next Laptop, which hopefully will support PCIe3.0x4 on m.2 interface.

    Moreover, look what I've found:
    For HP-Desktops => Samsung is the offcial supplier for zDrive_Gen2 => document from Samsung with datasheet of SM951: https://www.compuram.de/documents/datasheet/SM951_M.2_SSD_Spec_1.0_General(AHCI).pdf

    > "....Could you tell me your speeds?...."
    Yes sure. But I will get my SM951 in some days and then I've to install first the complete computer. I'm afaraid that this will need about one week ;-).
    But I'm quite sure, that I'll also have just 700-800MB/s!
    (Would be intersting what the zBook do with the newer Samsung SM951_NVMe. But I guess: => the same, because the PCIe3.0 and the 4 PCIe-lanes are missing in zBook15-G2 (obviously just 2 lanes PCIe2.0)
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2015
  8. chris48

    chris48 Newbie

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    Let me summarize.
    - The chipset is a QM87 which supports PCIe 2.0, only. (PCIe 3.0 referenced in the datasheet is for the graphics card and provided by the processor. See: http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/chipsets/performance-chipsets/qm87-chipset-diagram.html)
    - It seems that the zBooks support only two PCIe 2.0 lanes with a theoretical maximum of 1GByte/s. Without overhead we see speeds of about 800MByte/s. It might be a BIOS/software limitation, but I believe the hardware does not support more lanes. That means it is not worth buying the very fast and expensive SSDs.
    - We know that the Samsung XP941 and SM951 are fully supported in UEFI mode.
    - We know that AHCI versions work. We don't know if the NVMe version of the SM951 is supported.
    - The single-sided SM951 with "only" 256GB is thinner and fits perfectly. Higher-capacity versions are dual-sided and they do not fit that well.

    There is just too much marketing in HP's technical whitepapers. I wish they would add real facts, only. They talk about turbo-drive and PCIe 3.0, but never come out and say what exactly is supported and what not.
     
  9. Xaos

    Xaos Notebook Enthusiast

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    Hello chris48,

    Thanks for the useful tip with the QM87 chipset. I've over-readed/skiped it, while reading the tech_paper. You're right. Only the external graphics (Nvidia- or AMD-card) does have PCIe3.0. The other peripherals are thetered via QM87 with only PCIe2.0.
    But I understand the intel-QM87-datasheet and -diagram from your link in that way: The QM87 does have PCIe2.0 and in summary 8 lanes for all PCIe-ports. These 8 lanes are CONFIGURABLE for the ports. So it could support:
    • 2 slots/cards/peripherals PCIe2.0 x4 lanes
    • OR 1 slots/cards/peripherals PCIe2.0 x4 lanes + 2 slots/cards/peripherals PCIe2.0 x2 lanes
    • OR 4 slots/cards/peripherals PCIe2.0 x2 lanes
    • OR 8 slots/cards/peripherals PCIe2.0 x1 lane
    I don't really think that it is possible to configure for end-user (maybe in UEFI/Bios), but maybe if you deactivate not used PCIe-peripherals (e.g. the m.2-SIM-card-slot,...) it is possible to use PCIe2.0 x4lanes for m.2-SSD-slot !?! => The chipset would support it :) !! => Then we would have 1600MB/s instead of 800MB/s on m.2-SSD.
    It's a small chance - but have a look on it. (I guess that the QM87-chipset-configuration is choosen and fixed by HP to [4 slots/cards/peripherals PCIe2.0 x2 lanes] // But maybe it's really end-user configurable...)
    I'm quite sure that NVMe is supported by zBook-G2 becuse it's especially mentioned in white paper / see link in my last post (http://h20195.www2.hp.com/V2/GetPDF.aspx/4AA5-4884ENW.pdf). But it would be interessting which speed is reachable... ;-)

    Yes, you're absolutely right! I absolutely agree. But we have to be thankful, that we've found any kind of white paper. I guess that normally end-costumers don't get something from HP.... Maybe only admin's from huge companies, which are interested to buy a huge number of zBooks....
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2015
  10. hopey

    hopey Newbie

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    Hello Together,

    i'm also interested in using the 2280 pcie m.2 modules in my zBook-G2. Because this is a business use case, i'm not allowed to do such a "tape construction". So I thought about using such an extender and locate the ssd near the rotating hard drive:

    https://www.m-ware.de/en/adapters-a...f-b-m-key-sata-ssd-extension-id14826/a-14826/

    Does anyone of you have any experience with this? Do you think I'll suffer transfer speed?

    Regards,
    Matthias
     
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