Z690 MOBO W/ TB4

Discussion in 'Desktop Hardware' started by Tech Junky, Oct 27, 2021.

  1. Tech Junky

    Tech Junky Notebook Deity

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  2. Tyranus07

    Tyranus07 Notebook Evangelist

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    Just out of curiosity. why you want to jump in to z690?
     
  3. Tech Junky

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  4. Tyranus07

    Tyranus07 Notebook Evangelist

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    Well, IMO and talking for myself still is no time to jump in to Z690:

    • The gaming performance jump is not significant compared to a 10900K. And some even modern games like AC: Valhala have issues with the new architecture big.little.
    • Professional workload do actually benefit as big as 50% best case scenario but at a huge power cost, like ridiculous 300+W power consumption and 99ºC on air. So water cooling is a must with Alderlake.
    • PCIe 5 is only for GPU port, let me know if I'm wrong. And at the moment the most powerful 3090 doesn't even max out x16 PCIe 3.0 bandwidth so, to me having an exclusive PCIe 5.0 for GPU is a bit pointless. Rumors are the upcoming 3090 Ti will use PCIe 5.0 not for the bandwidth yet for the new power connector which supply up to 600W.
    • DDR5 at this point is not good enough for gaming. Reviews report mixed results where some games get better performance with DDR5 6400MHz CL36 and others better with DDR4 3200MHz CL14. And those kit DDR5 6400MHz are super expensive $300+. My B-die DDR4 4400 CL18 kit is $100
    • NVMe I have no idea how is going to perform on Z690 I hope it gets better but I have more expectations on newer techs like direct storage than pure bandwidth . Games aren't using fast SSD on all their potential, as a cheap 400MB/s SATA SSD performs exactly the same as a 3000+MB/s expensive NVMe.
    • Price of motherboards are ridiculous!!!
    Alderlake is good, don't get me wrong. Is just not the time for me at least.
     
  5. Tech Junky

    Tech Junky Notebook Deity

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    @Tyranus07

    Well, since I'm not using it on my server for gaming that's a moot point for several of your points.

    I have been building different configurations to see what can bring costs down and keep performance up.

    I found a DDR4 board that hits most of my intrigues and keeps it under $300. ASRock Z690 Steel Legend

    PCIE 5 x 16
    PCIE 4 X16 (2)
    PCIE 3 x 16
    PCIE 3 x1 (2)

    Most of the higher end board or boards in general seem to be offering 1 PCIE5 and the rest taper off into PCIE3 slots. Then they tend to go overboard with M2 slots from 3-5 of them w/ 1 usually being Gen3 x4 for NVME / SATA B+M option.

    I've deviated away from DDR5 at this point because there's ~3 options for MFG and I don't need more than 16GB to run the system for what it's being used for. The board above is DDR4 in that respect as well. I traded off the USB 3/2 2x2 port on the back to a header option for the panel on a new case.

    Through digging through various cards it's obvious that for Gen5 there's nothing out that can really push Gen5 bandwidth. However there are some interesting options for storage that can get around the need for bifurcation of the slot to enable multiple drives to be used (M2).

    If I make the jump now and recover costs on my current system the swap over adds up to ~$300 and that's with upgrading
    • RAM to 3600 from 3000
    • adding Gen 4 NVME 1TB x 2 from 256GB single @ 6820MB/4990MB/s vs current 3100MB/1400MB/s (could be double w/ Raid 0 but, going Raid 1 for redundancy)
    • switching from air to liquid
    • switching PSU / Case as well

    When newer HW comes to market that invokes the higher end features like PCI5 I won't have to swap things out of the chassis again. DDR5 will be more prominent in a couple of years when the next iteration of advances come along like PCI6 and hopefully another significant leap on the CPU side that's enticing enough to move forward. M2 slots on every board I looked at maxed at Gen4 anyway and there's no Gen5 drives anyway. Gen5 will push things to the extent of needing active cooling on the drives which is a whole different issue to be worked out between MOBO / NVME though there are a couple of PCI cards that add active cooling to the mix to reduce the impact of the heat on the controllers. Typically though unless you're pushing a complete drive copy you won't hit the thermal barrier and reduced speeds or the cache barrier in which it's exhausted.

    In the past I've played around with things that have maxed every port / slot on the board and power situations up to max load. As to the CPU 12 series is 25% more power draw than 8 series for 50% more computing power. Adds up to ~$2/mo on the electric bill.

    In your case, no it wouldn't make sense to switch from a 10 to 12. For me it would take something more significant as well to make that leap. I held back on 10/11 because I knew more significant changes were coming that make more of an impact. 10 >> 11 though was a farce in that it was more of a lateral move than an upgrade.
     
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  6. electrosoft

    electrosoft Perpetualist Matrixist

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    Depending on workflow and datasets (and computational loads) I would wait for reviews to see how the VRMs pan out. I know for 11th ASRock had some pretty bad duds (or they ran much hotter than others) when put under load on the mid to lower tier boards where the Steel falls.

    I picked up an MSI Z690-A Pro on the assumption VRM quality would be on par with last generation (The boards look nearly identical) with the MSI Z590-A Pro which had VRMs punching well above its weight. I used an MSI Z590-A Pro board and it handled 370w easily for benching and ~300w under sustained load testing. Later the VRM reviews backed up my findings.

    I also went DDR4 paired with a 12700k for full P-Core usage at $200+ cheaper keeping total cost under $700 after tax.
     
  7. Tech Junky

    Tech Junky Notebook Deity

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    I was looking at these initially before rethinking the slots / versions. I backed away from them after finding a better grouping of features. The problem with the Steel is that it isn't released yet but pending like 1/2 the stuff needed for a 12700K build.

    I've been sorting through making a new build though with new parts from the ground up and porting over my 3.5" drives but, for the most part building a new system and then selling the current one in working order to someone to make up the difference. I figure I can eek out total upgrade costs of ~$300 even with the HW bumps.

    I've been looking at new PSU's even though I have an EVGA G3 in the current system it's always nice to have something w/o the age on it already. Ran across a Fractal 850w that sounds good and isn't outlandishly priced @ $120 vs the $100 I paid for the G3 (2018).

    I tend to over ventilate my cases though. I currently run 10 fans in my Node 804 and the new case is a Meshify 2 which is a little more confined and switching to a radiator instead of my Fuma for the 8700K. The rad I found looks like it's decent MSI MAG CoreLiquid P240 lack of reviews but, don't have to do the dance with the 1700 brackets post purchase.

    There's a lot to consider with these swap outs when you have to change everything up to get where you think you want to be. There's a reason I skipped 10/11th gens as they didn't offer enough innovation to go through the process of re-sourcing everything needed. Then again I built this 8700K setup 3 times to get to what I wanted / needed it to do. It's sleek and blends into the room even though it's a monster of an "HTPC" under the hood. 3rd time was the right one for the MOBO/case. It's a PITA to find cases that hold 4+ 3.5' drives yet don't take up the corner of a room. Fractal really allows you to pack some density into them for their size. The 304 has hangers for 8 + 2 more over the PSU + 2.5" x 2 in the front facade. The Meshify holds something ridiculous like 13-16 depending on what you move around within the case.

    The builder wheels are churning on this one. I was thinking about porting things into the existing case but, there's only 1 matx board and it's DDR5 and it's $350 vs ~$250 for ATX w/ more options. I'm intrigued with DDR5 but, it's causing more pain than gain right now. These staggered release dates on ALL components makes it hard to figure out what the actual result can be. In most cases things aren't actually sold out but just haven't been released which causes more digging around to piece things together rather than running through pcpartpicker and selecting options.
     
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