XPS 9560 - New infos about throttling

Discussion in 'Dell XPS and Studio XPS' started by lugiank, Jun 11, 2018.

  1. lugiank

    lugiank Newbie

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    If you have reddit i made this same post there, please help get it relevant since mods deleted my last one:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/8qhmh6/xps_9560_throttling_fix_for_real_pt2_thermal/

    Update: r/Dell didn't like cloud storage links, the post is back online now.
    Cloud storage is needed to upload the actual original file, imgur will not retain Thermal data
    -------------------------------

    This should be relevant to 9550 and 9570 users too


    Last week i posted about me discovering a sensor, called DIMM in HWINFO that, as soon as it reached 62 °C the laptob started throttling, going for few seconds to 15W and then to 7W

    Given that when you buy something, you expect it to work out of the box, and without Mc Giver tricks here and there, here is how i fixed my throttling issues (and it's basically summer now so it's hot af).

    Before starting i would like to say something else: people saying "this is not a gaming laptop, it's normal it throttles if there is a combine gpu + cpu workload" are completely ignorant.

    Gaming is even a lighter workload that most of "pro" stuff, gaming doesn't loads 100% both cpu and gpu either, but being an engineering student myself, there are a lot of programs that do this.

    So please do not come here to say ********.

    After both repasting (with grizzly kryonaut), and padding VRM (NEVER EVER PUT PADS BETWEEN THE HEATSINK AND THE METAL CASE TRYING TO COOL DOWN CPU AND GPU, IT WLL MAKE THE WHOLE CASE VERY HOT AND WILL ACTUALLY HEAT EVERYTHING YOU PADDED), ram modules and chipset i was still having throttling problems with said programs (and not gaming).

    I found out that as soon a sensor, called DIMM, reached 62 °C i started experiencing power throttle, down to 7 Watts.

    I finally found this sensor, placed between ram modules, which gets hot because it's very close to the cpu/gpu heatsink.

    After padding it (which i actually do not recommend since both there may be a reason because it's there or a very bad design choice) throttling issues went finally away.

    DIMM Sensor:

    https://imgur.com/wMRfjHd

    After Padding: (I also put another thermal pad on top of it to reach the metal case)

    https://imgur.com/MMTVKbK

    Temps

    https://imgur.com/Wjaf8km

    For reference this was the situation before: (Took this screen months ago actually, asking for help, but noone was able to spot this DIMM sensor, it was dropping first to 15W for some seconds, then to 7W)

    https://i.imgur.com/Rev4WwT.png

    The bottom spikes you see at the beginning are with a minimum of 27W (totally usable), and just because fans were not still spinning at max
    And you can find it at:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/8o6utm/this_is_how_i_finally_managed_to_stop_my_xps_15/

    One week later i came back to that subreddit posting thermal images of the laptop without the back cover to show the exact components that get hot, and to figure out if it's safe to pad the DIMM sensor to stop it from throttling (without messing with Intel's Thermal Framework)
    Long story short: it looks like my post has been deleted by mods for some reasons.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    TLdR: I finally fixed ALL of my throttling problems, but how?

    • Padded VRM (12W/mk) bridging them to the case -> it turned out it could be a better idea to bridge it to the heatsing when possible in the long run
    • Repasted with Grizzly Kryonaut (NOT liquid metal)
    • Padded PCH with 6 or 8 (don't remember) W/mK
    • Placed Kapton tape to redirect more airflow to the heatsink's fins
    After this i was still experiencing throttle in combined GPU+CPU workloads (pro programs, not games)​
    • No more throttle ever even in 100% GPU + CPU by padding DIMM sensor, placed between ram slots, bridging it to the case
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This is my new post, including Thermal images, i hope you guys find this informations useful:


    Last week i posted about this sensor, placed between DIMM slots, that as soon as it reached 62 °C the laptop started throttling.
    (Old post for reference)
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/8o6utm/this_is_how_i_finally_managed_to_stop_my_xps_15/
    The workaround for me has been putting a thermal pad between the sensor and the metal case, telling THIS SHOULD NOT BE DONE since i'm tricking the sensor into wrong readings, and before anyone kills his laptop this should be investigated further.
    Today i got my thermal camera back and i took some pictures, and a video (from idle to full load) to share with you guys.
    I UNPADDED EVERYTHING TO SHOW YOU THE REAL TEMPS BTW
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Prerequisites:

    Flir Tools software, available for free at: (Needs registration btw)
    http://support.flir.com/SwDownload/app/RssSWDownload.aspx?ID=120

    Downloading the pictures:
    Cloud storage is needed because i need to share the original pictures to be able to retain Thermal informations (viewed and edited with flir software), any other sharing medium like imgur will actually convert the picture
    OneDrive (Has edited pictures so you can see temps without software download)

    Google Drive
    WeTransfer
    Zippyshare
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    What i found out:
    - VRM gets hot af, reaching over 100 °C -> VRM can be padded to the heatsink (which is at around 75 °C) instead of the metal case
    - There ia a grey box getting really hot near the battery connector
    - DIMM sensor gets hot because the motherboard gets hot because it's too close to the cpu and gpu (nice motherboard design DELL), DIMMs stay cool btw
    -------------------------------------------------------
    FAQ:
    • Q: What is that tape over the fans?
    • A: It's Kapton tape, i placed it there because there was a space between the end of the fan and the fins of the heatsink

    • Q: Should i pad the DIMM sensor?
    • A: I am still not sure this is safe, someone more expert than me should answer this question

    • Q: Should i pad the VRM to the case or to the heatsink?
    • A: It's better to pad it to the heatsink

    • Q: Are you stupid? Why in every picture you pointed the thermometer to a random spot? We Can't see the temps we care about..
    • A: You need to download Flir Tools to place the thermometer probe anywhere you want, i took the picture like this to capture a generic area, not to show you the temps in that specific spot
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
    abujafar, Jff007, _sem_ and 1 other person like this.
  2. custom90gt

    custom90gt Notebook Virtuoso

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    Thanks for posting this, I tried to view your reddit images but they kept getting removed...
     
  3. lugiank

    lugiank Newbie

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    Maybe Dell is unhappy when someone points out they made a lot of mistakes, glad to help btw
     
    custom90gt likes this.
  4. _sem_

    _sem_ Notebook Evangelist

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    Tnx for the images!

    What load test(s) were you running when you took them?
    Was it on battery or on AC charger (probably not on USB-C power)?
    What were the CPU and GPU temperatures (what's the difference between them and the heatsink)?

    It would be interesting to test the VRM "bridge" variant further. I'm not sure how well it works, considering that a pad is ca 50x less thermally conductive than a metal strip, is not intended to be used this way. I mean, is it possible to do sth that works just as well as iunlock's mod but with less fuss, maybe instead of cutting the built-in one using a small additional copper sheet e.g.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/0-3mm-0-5m...hash=item4d46174f14:m:mJB2YX9Yp6rYxxUIXiCMVVA
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/T2-Copper-...hash=item5b26ad8d86:m:mcGMEp9crW-Eprx3fQiSm6g

    Interesting to know how hot the heatpipe actually gets. It seems one shouldn't put pads so that the same pad touches the mosfet and the sensor.

    I think fooling the sensors a little bit isn't such a sin, if one firstly does sth with the excessive heat. We can't adjust the thresholds a little bit, after we have already reduced the peak temperatures ;( Surely this is more reasonable than killing DPTF altogether.

    The south bridge chip does look warm at start. It looks it is worth trying "bridging" it to the vent case, if that would make the fan spin less at idle.
     
    Jff007 likes this.
  5. Jff007

    Jff007 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Glad to see someone else trying the VRM bridge idea! Are you doing the same tape mod as was thrown around on here? Is the tape rated to withstand temps above 100C?
     
  6. lugiank

    lugiank Newbie

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    Kapton tape is rated for very very high temps, and no, i just used it to redirect some more airflow
     
  7. lugiank

    lugiank Newbie

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    I just woke up so i'll answer most important things now and the rest later lol

    Stress test was AIDA64 CPU + GPU, and i was under normal AC, the type c connected is my external monitor

    I'll add more infos in the FAQ section
     
  8. abujafar

    abujafar Notebook Consultant

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    @lugiank Thanks for sharing!

    I agree with you that padding the heatsink to the backplate is a bad idea.

    However, I just don't see creating a "bridge" between the VRMs and the heatsink with a thermal pad as good idea either. As @_sem_ was hinting, thermal pads aren't meant to be used as mats as they don't transfer heat well horizontally (thermal pads aren't already that great vertically either).
    @lugiank have you tried this bridge method yourself?

    @_sem_ sure, copper sheets can transfer heat horizontally BUT they are conductive. If you don't do a neat job, you are running big risks.
     
  9. Jff007

    Jff007 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Could you post a picture of the bridge and tape mods?
     
  10. lugiank

    lugiank Newbie

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    If you open the provided images with flir software you can switch between thermal and visible radiation (normal color picture), please i ran out of thermal pads, i don't want to open it one more time, it's already a mess..
     
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