Windows 8: The Thread

Discussion in 'Windows OS and Software' started by Jayayess1190, Jun 1, 2011.

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  1. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

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    I'm really excited about this, but I've only got one PC machine, and I also use it for work, so I'm going to wait. Can't afford to discover bugs in a client meeting or a trial.

    But from what I've seen, I think it looks really good, just needs a few kinks worked out (which is what this consumer preview is for).
     
  2. Pirx

    Pirx Notebook Virtuoso

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    Well, I didn't ask you, and if I had, I would not have expected a sensible answer anyway. You didn't disappoint, that much I'll give you. In case it matters, I have done systems administration for Unix systems, and was using Linux exclusively on my personal machines at a time when I imagine you were still in diapers. My first Linux distribution was Yggdrasil. I know some of the Linux Kernel developers personally, and was, in fact, involved (in a very minor role) in some of their work. I was one of a couple of hundred people who got offered shares for Red Hat's IPO as a result.

    Sure, sure.

    That's a nice theory, but the idea that everybody is going through the available source code to find vulnerabilities just doesn't stand up to scrutiny. I am well aware of the argument, but I'll just say that it has never been demonstrated to hold any water, at all.

    See above. They are areas that some people imagine make Linux more secure. This particular debate (security of open versus closed systems) has been going on for decades, without conclusion.

    If you need a hardened version of Windows, you can use plenty of tools for that as well, of course. That is a specialty area in any case, and of little interest to common users.

    So do Windows ACLs, which can apply to all objects, not only filesystem objects.

    Like I said, that means nothing. All that counts is who actually does audit it. That's A LOT less than those millions...

    As an aside, this shows a fairly naive view of what security auditing can do, and how it is done in practice. For the vast majority of security flaws, in any OS, people have stared at the code until the cows came home, and didn't see the issue. In most cases issues are found by trial-and-error-like procedures, just like general bugs in code is most often found not through formal analysis, but through test runs. For a long time now, most security flaws are the results of coding errors (i.e., straight-out bugs), rather than flawed designs.

    And guess what, that means nothing. Like I said, at least nobody has conclusively demonstrated that it does.

    See? There you go.

    You mean you can make such a claim based on nothing at all? Sure, you can do that, but such a claim carries no weight at all. Bit of a waste of breath if you ask me.
     
  3. Pirx

    Pirx Notebook Virtuoso

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    I forgot to say, if we are talking about system security as experienced by the common user out there, then what happens in userspace is in fact almost all that matters. Notice that by far the vast majority of exploits (on Windows, and other OS') these days do indeed happen in userspace. For these, it doesn't matter one wit how secure your kernel is, since kernel security is never breached.
     
  4. Pirx

    Pirx Notebook Virtuoso

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    Those are not bugs, most likely. All of those things you mentioned install kernel-mode drivers, and typically really cr@ppy ones at that. I'm not at all surprised they crash the system. I would have expected them to do that.

    iTunes? Good god, Apple has never been able to properly code iTunes for any version of Windows. I'll bet you dollars to pebbles that the issue is iTunes.

    Sounds like a bug, yes. That's what betas are for.

    Pretty daring, to use a first beta in a production environment. But maybe you're not producing much, or at least you don't have to... ;)
     
  5. Hungry Man

    Hungry Man Notebook Virtuoso

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    You realize that if Flash is running on XP the lack of ASLR support in the kernel is what makes it less secure - right? Security happens int he kernel, regardless of where breaches are.

    Beacuse there's no way to do this. It's just academic.
     
  6. Pirx

    Pirx Notebook Virtuoso

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    No. There's plenty of nasty viruses that work perfectly fine on an OS with a perfectly secure kernel. End of story.

    Looks like we're in agreement.
     
  7. Hungry Man

    Hungry Man Notebook Virtuoso

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    You're talking about low-rights malware I assume?

    Maybe I'm not being clear enough or something. Just because you can install malware without it directly hooking the kernel and malware that stays in userland does not mean that security is somehow outside of the kernel. ASLR, DEP, SEHOP - the windows ACL system - these are still built into the kernel regardless of where malware is. That's just a principal - that security should happen as low as possible.

    That's all I'm saying.

    Which is all I've said. You can't say "Open source is greater than closed source" but there's definitely a discussion to be had. You can make a plenty strong case that Linux is more secure than Windows.

    I'm not interested in clogging this topic with it. IF you want to continue you can make a topic elsewhere, PM me with a link if you do.

    You had a lot of stuff to say in the earlier post that I don't really feel like responding to. I will if you make a new topic.
     
  8. Pirx

    Pirx Notebook Virtuoso

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    I said what there is to say about the topic from my point of view. At this point I have neither the time nor the interest to pursue this any further.
     
  9. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

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    If I run Windows 8 via VirtualBox instead of using it as the main OS on my machine, there's no chance that it could mess anything up, right? I've got a huge HDD (750 GBB), so I could easily create a 50 GB virtual machine for just fiddling around with Win 8, so long as it doesn't have any effect on anything else installed on my computer.

    I've never used VirtualBox before, but I was planning on following this guide if people here thought that was a good idea:

    Virtually Windows 8: How to set up the Consumer Preview in VirtualBox | ZDNet
     
  10. JOSEA

    JOSEA NONE

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    Mitlov, that is exactly what i am doing. I have used VBox before and it runs just like any other windows based app in that if you delete the Virtual Machine the 'guest OS - win 8 ' will be gone.
    I am using this as a guide, and will install it on a seconday hard drive http://www.sysprobs.com/guide-install-windows-8-virtualbox
    If you want to wait a day or so I will report back here (my asus home LOL) http://forum.notebookreview.com/asus-gaming-notebook-forum/648770-win8-g74sx-anyone-trying.html
     
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