Wide Bandwidth AX Access Point?

Discussion in 'Networking and Wireless' started by vaio.phil, Oct 12, 2021.

  1. vaio.phil

    vaio.phil Notebook Evangelist

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    Just a quick question... is there any wifi 6 (AX) 5 GHz access point with a 160 MHz bandwidth?

    (Access point = flat square/round thing, wall mount type, usually a white color enclosure, no external antenna, quietly looks like a smoke detector, POE, wired backhaul, for use with latest 2x2 phones/laptops/devices)

    Thanks!
     
  2. Tech Junky

    Tech Junky Notebook Deity

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    I'm using a Zyxel NWA210AX for tis purpose and it responds well for data pushing 1.25gbps. When I was looking around one thing that I kept in mind to get these great speeds you needs a wired port on the AP that does more than 1gbps and the 210AX has a 2.5gbps port for this purpose. It comes with an AC adapter or you can do POE and I found a POE that does 10gbps to make sure I'm not speed limited by something in the chain. I tested with both a direct connection and through POE to make sure I wasn't leaving bandwidth on the table. I went with a 4 port 5GE card in my server/router since most consumer grade options don't have the option for higher than gbps on them. Besides the card was $200 vs a $600 "router" that underperforms.

    160mhz channels on the AP market is limited though to a couple of options at this point still. The Zyxel though usually sits in the $230 price range while others hit $500+,

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08HQQ4SPQ

    [​IMG]
     
  3. vaio.phil

    vaio.phil Notebook Evangelist

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    @Tech Junky wow that graph looks super! This Zyxel NWA210AX certainly looks promising.
    I was looking at their website and they also have an NWA110AX model but it's a 2x2 type. I was thinking this should work too. But it doesn't say 160 MHz bandwidth for this 110AX model (says 80 MHz) but it does for the 210AX (says 160 MHz). Does that mean i need a 4x4 model to do 160 MHz bandwidth, or does the 210AX supports 160MHz using some other method? Is this 160MHz a requirement to makes it fast when in a difficult/further location?
    Thanks.
     
  4. Tech Junky

    Tech Junky Notebook Deity

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    Ehhh... the 100 is the baby brother to the 210. I was focused on a few things when picking an AP since my QWA-AC2600 internal card and no other AX internal card was available at the time for hosting an AP. The QWA-AC2600 handled WIFI great but, upgraded my devices to AX and wanted something that did AX. I'm a Network Engineer so, I look deeper at the specs than most when selecting things.

    4x4 is allowing you the higher throughput with more clients. The 160 vs 80 is just a manufacturing preference for Zyxel. There's a couple of other brands like Engenius I looked at but, they didn't have the right mix of tech and some of them had subscriptions needed for updates / features and while that's ok for work w/ Cisco / Juniper / etc. it's not something I want to keep feeding at home.

    160 is still marked as beta in the FW though even though it's obviously showing a 160 band of spectrum in the wifi analyzer capture. It did take some tinkering / segregation to get things pumping at full speed though. I named the 2.4 band something different and 5 another name. Devices attaching to 2.4 don't have AC enabled on them and I have a couple of devices that link up at 1200+.

    upload_2021-10-12_14-5-6.png

    My phone is the bottom one that's in "standby" which is why it's showing lower than normal 1200x1200 is usually what the AP is reporting when I'm actively using it.

    My place is ~1300sq ft and there's no dead spots on 5G band and even outside on the patio I still push 600mbps on my phone on wifi. Laptop hits ~1.25gbps internally to the server it's connected to.

    I expect with further FW releases they may pump up the bandwidth to push the HW a little harder. The AP is only a year old or so at this point and they're still releasing FW updates as recent as a couple of months ago. I opened a case with them disputing some of the marketing info and real world experiences. I tend to mangle this thing through the CLI though as I can deleted crap i don't use and remove their potential backdoor info. I think I trimmed about 1/3 of the base config items out to declutter things.

    Each radio though has up to 8 different profiles you can create for different purposes. I'm pretty happy with it so far but can't wait for something AX-E to hit the market at a reasonable price and not bundling in a router. I bult a PC for that function and well....let's just say it blows away the plastic junk off the shelf. I also combined 5-6 devices into it for a smaller footprint / electrical draw from multiple devices.
     
  5. Tech Junky

    Tech Junky Notebook Deity

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    No, but it's nice to have the fat pipe regardless. 5ghz won't get you much penetration through walls so it's mostly LoS speed. If you have a gig pipe it's necessary to hit speeds close to that limit over wifi instead of throttling @ AC speeds to max 866mbps. The reason for the NIC upgrade was to be able to get beyond the WAN speed limt as I bundle 2 gig ports on the modem to 2 ports on the PC for a 2GE pipe which allows me to use the over provisioning bandwidth as well. I get speed tests of 1200mbps over VPN (wireguard) on a 1gbps plan. theoretically it should be provisioned @ 1250 mbps.

    @work I tend to be dealing with bundles of 10GE ports between switches and even get to play with 100GE WAN links so, this is just a hobby to outperform on a residential basis. When I'm doing serious data transfers though I'll hardwire with a 5GE USB-C adapter to the card in the sever and be able to pull 400MB/s for transfer speeds using a Raid 10 setup for data.
     
  6. Jovial_Jack

    Jovial_Jack Newbie

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    I've had luck with Ubiquiti U6-LR. Bear in mind though that success with 160 MHz is entirely beholden to DFS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_frequency_selection

    I've deployed two in different cities and both have been been knocked back down to 80 MHz presumably by the AP detecting the signal of a radar tower somewhere in the city.

    Like TechJunky I also am eager to have laptops and AX-E access points in the coming years so that DFS is no longer a variable.
     
  7. Tech Junky

    Tech Junky Notebook Deity

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    Don't get me started on DFS!!!!!

    Such a PITA that's not really needed at this point. Radar easily overpowers these 30W signals.
     
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  8. vaio.phil

    vaio.phil Notebook Evangelist

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    Thanks! Wow those are fast network stuff there. Yeah I'm trying to do the LoS method too by putting this AP on the wall or ceiling there in an open hallway near my laptop's spot in the formal dining room table. It's already quite fast after going thru a few walls. The new router is now twice faster than the previous router, but I'm trying to double it again to 950+ mbit/s max like near the router (comcast 800 plan). I just ordered the 110AX AP to see if i can get 950 mbits/s while near it. To make it a ceiling mount I'll carve into the sheetrock to hide/bury the network cable (just 2 or 3 inches anyways). (Wallmount near there is way too easy.) If i don't get 950, I'll quickly order the 210AX.
    Thanks again for your help!
     
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  9. Tech Junky

    Tech Junky Notebook Deity

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    I don't see why you wouldn't be able to hit 900+ with the110. For ~$70 more going with the 210 is more of a guarantee though you would have good coverage and speed. Using the 2.5gbps port will let you snag any free additional bandwidth from overprovisioning.

    Either way though these things are a bargain to just attach to an existing network for a boost in speed / coverage. Better than dealing with stupid mesh / pods / extenders and so on. Just give it the same credentials and not deal with the loss of speed.

    When they first came out the FW was a bit finicky when it came to channel selection. Reminds me on 160 you have to manually pick one not auto picked for you. Just download wifi analyzer on your phone and take a look what's around you. I try to force other networks in my building to use the higher channels with placement / power settings. ;) Power outages / reboots help in clearing the airwaves for better signal / speed. Try to avoid picking channel 36 as most devices default to that and it will chew up your speeds contending for air space. I usually aim for 40-44 as the sweet spot for this thing. Higher channels tend to be a bit more ornery about working well for some reason.
     
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  10. vaio.phil

    vaio.phil Notebook Evangelist

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    Uh. Great. What a slippery slope. I just tried to cancel the Zyxel NWA110AX (too late, will return) and ordered the NWA210AX. You're right... need the extras with the 2.5Gb port, 4x4 (and probably the 160 MHz bandwidth too if it works) to get to 900++ mbits/s and probably will have a better coverage at a further distance too. I saw a comparison article/video and the 110AX was topping out at 700++ mbits/s while the 210AX was stronger/faster there.
     
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