Why does sager use the slower gtx 1070 max Q in the p950ER

Discussion in 'Sager and Clevo' started by ahmad hendeh, May 9, 2018.

  1. Grant B Gibson

    Grant B Gibson Notebook Deity

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    the X4C from Eurocomm is ~1600 at lowest config (i5 8400, 16GB RAM) for a 1070 last time I checked
     
  2. RampantGorilla

    RampantGorilla Notebook Deity

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    Get a Powerspec 1510 from Microcenter. You can get it with a gtx 1070 and a i7 7700HQ for $1300.
     
  3. Support.1@XOTIC PC

    Support.1@XOTIC PC Company Representative

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    Right now the ones in that range are the GE Raider ones. There is a GS one I see that is $1699 with the kabylake and 1070 GPU
     
  4. XMG

    XMG Company Representative

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    Max-Q specification is 80" - 90W 1070, so though it's at the lower end of the scale it is driven by 40 dBA noise level ultimately. Some companies' (I meanother companies which don't use Clevo chassis) laptops exceed this depending on the profile setting, but I'm not here to defend MAX-Q.

    I completely forgot to say that the P955ER has been out for a while, basically cosmetic differences but that uses the 80W version - same as the previous HR models.
     
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  5. ahmad hendeh

    ahmad hendeh Notebook Evangelist

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    What I truly hate is the lack of transparency . You are losing 12% performance + your OC headroom and nobody even knows about it. For everybody its all the same card("gtx 1070 max q")

    Hopefully it's fixable with a hardware programmer
     
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  6. XMG

    XMG Company Representative

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    The official Nvidia guideline for Max-Q 1070 is 80W - 90W. It's completely within specification to be at 80W.

    To be fair, the performance of a Max-Q 1070is noticeably below that of a standard 1070 - weather this is transparent or not in the first place is one question. If the GPU and thus laptop is fully within Nvidia guidelines for their nomenclature, you have independant reviews and the manufacturer's specifications online to give you more of a performance indication. Also you could argue the same about non Max-Q laptops - they perform differently due to different cooling systems, thinner/thicker chassis, TDP limits and so on.

    If you want to overclock then you shouldn't be looking at Max-Q anyway - performance isn't the key issue at stake with this product line and the chassis have must less headroom to clock because of the limits introduced for thickness and fan noise in order to meet the Max-Q specification.
     
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  7. ahmad hendeh

    ahmad hendeh Notebook Evangelist

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    A 90w max q performs at around 16.2k in 3dmark firestrike graphics stock . Compared with the normal 1070 16.5k on gl502vs and 17k from the zephryus. With a few tweaks to the voltage curve the 90w max q is the same thing as a 1070N since it has a target of 90 and a limit of 100. It reaches 1711mhz on the aero 15x STOCK in some instances FFS

    The 80w version can never reach anything close to a normal gtx 1070. It gets 14.8k tops at 3dmark fire strike. you would be lucky to get it to slightly above its specified boost frequency and might end up BELOW depending on silicon lottery since both the target and limit are rigidly set at 80w

    That's like selling two gtx 1070 desktop versions. One that can boost 2ghz and another that can only boost at best cases to 1.6ghz and sell them under one product without any brand ever specifying in the spec sheet. What about customers who bought a laptop 1070 max q seeing its performance in the gx501vs and then findout that the card under the same name in their gs65 performs 12% LOWER NO MATTER HOW COOL IT RUNS ?????. The only company with the decency to specify is alianware.its a scam and people need to know that they aren't even going to get the max q 1070 performance on the NP8954 and the GS65. This version is within 10% performance of a 1060N . Don't you think customers deserve to know and not get charts about the 90w version faring much better ?

    And when I say overclocking I am talking about msi afterburner undervolting. The 1070 can hold 1640~1750mhz at 0.8v constant which allows you to "cheese" the powerlimit and get a performance very close to the gtx1070N. The 80w runs at below 0.8v all the time so you cant edit it.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
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  8. XMG

    XMG Company Representative

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    If you look at a large group of Max-Q laptops in independant reviews, you can see comments like this:

    "The model used in our review device has a base clock of 1101 MHz and a boost clock of up to 1544 MHz. However, the boost clock cannot be maintained under continuous load. During our benchmarks, we observed an average core clock of 1200 MHz."

    Firestrike:

    Aorus X5 v7 16349 (normal 1070)

    Max-Q:
    Zephyrus 16165(this is the exception, does it have a better cooling system or is it the only 90W in thr group?)
    Aero 15X 14607
    GS63VR 14394

    If you look at all the game benchmarks that notebookcheck has run on 1070, 1070 Max-Q and 1060, you can roughly see that:

    - 1070 runs on average 26% higher FPS than 1070 Max-Q
    - 1070 Max-Q runs on average 14% higher FPS than 1060

    My point is that if you take a large data set, a Max-Q at stock is a noticable level beloe the non-Max-Q. This is dependant on a number of factors, such as chassis, cooling implimentation, fan performance and so on. It can also be a result of a TDP limit, however if an average consumer looks at these figures, they can see that the very high performing models are the exception.

    You can also make a very strong case that just because a GPU is limited to the higher end of the specification envelope i.e. 90W, it doesn't actually mean that it will perform better overall. Perhaps in quick benchmarks yes, as there's less time to hit the thermal limit and chassis heat build up. But you can easilly have a 90W TDP limited chip running at the same or very similar performance level to an 80W limited chip because it's limited by other factors (cooling).
     
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  9. ahmad hendeh

    ahmad hendeh Notebook Evangelist

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    The aero 15x sets at around 15.3k(from notebookcheck) . It would probably reach the 16k if it had daul channel ram since according to hardware unboxed that improved the aero 15x fps by 10%.

    I want you to look how close the 90w version scores to a real 1070n (hell they might even delete the max q labelling on it) to know why I am pissed off. The difference between 16.2k and 16.3k is non existent. So the 1070 max q 90w IS a normal 1070N for all intents and purposes. Alianware as an example has its normal 1070N set to a 100w hard power limit just like the 90w version, do we really go around calling the 1070's in alianware laptops 1070 max-q ????

    The gs63 and gs65 use the 80w version like sager so I dont understand your point.

    And unlike hard tdp limits. Thermals can be improved with thermal grizzly conductonaut and Fujipoly Extreme Thermal Pads.

    Edit the voltage curve and you get 17k+ at no increase in temps since your undervolting as well.

    The 1070 sweet spot is 95W. The 90w version has a hard limit of a 100w so it can reach it if it has the thermal headroom. The 80w version will stay at a pathetic 1200mhz all the damn time under 99% load because its hard limit is 80w.



    This is A DESKTOP CARD holding 1721mhz@0.8v(at stock this frequncy requires around 0.95v) at 95w with an undervolt. With the 90w version you can probably hold it or something close to it without breaking your 100w hard limit.this makes your max q card a real 1070 card in a good chassis

    And your reasoning for using the 80w chip is BS . At load the np8851 has a 55db reading acording to gentechpc review of the p950hr. It would probably be loauder because the i7 8750h pushes more heat than an i7 7700hq

    And your max q 1070 being faster than a gtx 1060n is inflated. The 80w(the majority of 1070 max q out there) is only 10% faster than a 1060n
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
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  10. aIex

    aIex Notebook Consultant

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    Which GPU costs more Max-Q or non-Max-Q? I mean the price difference between laptops with same specs but different GPUs.
     
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