Why a lot of Haswell laptops are using low power processors ?

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by hhhd1, Nov 2, 2014.

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  1. HTWingNut

    HTWingNut Potato

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    I sure hope they decide to offer a quad core ULV CPU. The quad Atom in the Asus Transformer book Laplet are actually quite impressive. Well balanced performance for a 4W TDP and with four full cores (no hyper-threading though). Just do the same with a 15W variant and we're golden.
     
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  2. nipsen

    nipsen Notebook Ditty

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    Likely technically impossible without essentially removing the benefit of the function.

    It's a bit like this. To drive hyper-threading and internal caching on the processor fast enough to actually outmatch another processor element, you would need the option to go up to fairly high clock-speeds, and have memory working at very high speeds. The moment you reduce the internal clock, and start being economical on the clock-cycles (the principle behind hyper-threading and CISC in general is .. as many single operations as humanly possible, and the higher frequency of single operations, the more real performance increase over simply performing each math-operation when called directly). When you do that, you're essentially adding complexity and circuitry to the die without gaining any performance. Or conversely, removing the dead-weight reduces watt-drain without losing anywhere near proportional performance.

    And therefore, the cut-down versions of the current processors are.. cut-down versions. They run without the specific desktop solution for boosting processor performance. And arguably we're not going to see a scaled down low-watt processor with the same functions as the "full versions", until... someone invents liquid nano-threading graphite woven with some electrical conductor, or something of that sort.
     
  3. John Ratsey

    John Ratsey Moderately inquisitive Super Moderator

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    The power requirement of quad core parts has gradually come down. A 25W quad core part could appear after a couple more iterations of Intel's architecture but it may not run a single-threaded process any faster than a CPU with half the power rating.

    The 35W i7-4712MQ is not significantly faster running single threaded benchmarks (Cinebench single or SuperPi) than the 15W i7-4600U.

    John
     
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  4. hhhd1

    hhhd1 Notebook Consultant

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    Until 2 years ago, it was possible to get a descent budget 35w laptop, with good battery power, my HP sandy bridge 15" used to last 5 hours on 6 cell battery.

    Just because some users prefer to sacrifice a little performance for battery time, doesn't mean everyone think that way, and the option should not be taken away all together.

    Even today, Macbook pro have a 47w processor in a thin-light form (4870HQ).

    With the increase use of SSDs, CPU have became the bottleneck again.

    Even if that is their design purpose, currently the MS surface pro tablet (0.36 inches thickness) have those processors:

    i5-4300U, i7-4650U

    The thing is ...

    I get asked by GFX designers and students on recommendation for laptops, I always say Apple is over priced, you can get a slight reduce in features for a much lesser price, but that is not the case any more, if you need performance, in a regular 15" average weight laptop you have to pay high prices, .. and due to Apple's reputation and quality, and the price gap that is getting smaller, it is getting harder to find something worth recommending.

    This is a wrong move for "IBM Compatible" laptops.
     
  5. Peon

    Peon Notebook Virtuoso

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    You're looking at this from the wrong perspective - people aren't necessarily preferring to sacrifice a little performance for battery time, that's just a nice side effect - what's really happening is people are preferring to sacrifice a little performance for a laptop that weighs 50% less.

    4.46 pounds was considered thin and light back in 2006, but these days you really need to get under 3 pounds to qualify...

    In which case you should get a quad core CPU. It's not like the meager 15-20% performance difference between a "U" processor and an "M" processor will make a difference here.

    I'm afraid none of us in this thread shares this opinion of yours.
     
  6. hhhd1

    hhhd1 Notebook Consultant

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    You missed the point, it is light enough for 47w cpu, show me others competing in that range of TDP with that weight and thickness :)

    I can't afford the quad core, I want an 'M' processor, with 40% performance increase over the 'U', while being cheaper.

    i3-4010U @ 1.70GHz ($281): Passmark: 2482, single thread: 962
    i3-4000M @ 2.40GHz ($240): Passmark: 3304, single thread: 1354

    4000M scores 33% more, and 40% more on signal thread performance, while unit price is $40 less.

    I want a $400 laptop with core i3, that can be upgraded with SSD and RAM, and perform 40% more, and the extra $40 of cpu price difference can be used to cover the extra costs for upgrading the heat sink design to handle the extra heat.

    sources, cpubenchmark.net, wikipedia.org
     
  7. Kent T

    Kent T Notebook Virtuoso

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    Then buy a used business class model of equivalent performance off lease. And have at it. Your kind of laptop is not buyable new at that price point now. Thinner, lighter, and more battery efficient at similar performance to the Sandy era boxes what is desired.
     
  8. Qing Dao

    Qing Dao Notebook Deity

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    I agree with hhhd1 that it is sad that things are going in this direction.
     
  9. ajnauron

    ajnauron Notebook Consultant

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    Hey man, what happened to the good old days with the 13" thin and lights with standard voltage 35w CPUs, dedicated graphics, and non-soldered, user replaceable standard height 9.5mm drives, like the Asus U36, Sony Vaio S/Z series, Acer TimelineX, LG P330 etc? I felt those struck a balance between portability and performance, because they have decent CPU performance(comparable to today's Haswell ULVs), dedicated graphics and upgradable, non-soldered drives and memory, and were all around 1 inch thick. Normal people who bought a M-series Sandy Bridge and buy a U-series Haswell thinking they'll be much faster because they're new will be disappointed when they feel the same performance level.

    Untitled3.png

    Now we have to go to niche/boutique manufacturers who still care about this stuff like Gigabyte.
     
  10. Kent T

    Kent T Notebook Virtuoso

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    In my world, Gigabyte is a niche maker, but Gaming is their specialty. Business Class from the big brands will be your main solution in non gaming laptop brands. Since corporate PC fleet needs tend to be more oriented to your needs, even in current machines.
     
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