When Apple criticism goes too far

Discussion in 'Apple and Mac OS X' started by Felix_Argyle, Oct 5, 2019.

  1. Felix_Argyle

    Felix_Argyle Notebook Consultant

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    Everybody knows that hating on Apple products is very trendy, and in a lot of cases, it is well-justified. Even I have plenty of complaints about their products and would never buy any of them right now. However, sometimes even valid criticism goes too far, even from people who are very familiar with Apple products. For example, watch this video by Louis Rossman where he criticizes MacBook Air's cooling system:


    As much as I love Louis, he really went too far and either failed to see it himself or wants others to ignore the reason for this cooling design. What Apple did with this MacBook Air is pretty rational - the Intel CPU they use has very low TDP of about 7w, so it does not need a large heatsink and the fan does actually work to cool CPU even if it does not have heatpipe with additional heatsink. Here is how it actually works, using photos from iFixit:

    macbook.jpg
    There is a foam air guide on the back cover which guides the airflow across the top area. So the cooling design is pretty logical and should work well considering the primary task of this laptop (doing browsing or reading emails or watching videos or similar tasks). Would it perform better if there was a heatpipe and extra heatsink in front of the fan exhaust? Yes. Is it necessary? Not really. Not for 99% of the intended users who will not notice a very small increase in performance while doing those tasks if there would be a better cooling system.

    So yea, long story short - Apple does have many reasons for critique, but that does not mean you have to go overboard with it to the point of making fun of rational design choice, especially if you are professional who repairs them ;-)
     
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  2. Spartan

    Spartan Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    While he does some valid points most of the time, sometimes he goes overboard. His only mission in this life is to put Apple's image to shame yet his business revolves around fixing Macs which obviously means he is a die heard and longtime Apple product user. :rolleyes:
     
  3. TheReciever

    TheReciever D! For Dragon!

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    Could easily been avoided with a heatpipe.
     
  4. Felix_Argyle

    Felix_Argyle Notebook Consultant

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    Yes but heatpipe and extra heatsink would increase costs. I am sure Apple engineers tried various solutions to find the most efficient in terms of cost and performance.
    This isn't even about that, the point is Louis could not understand how this cooling system works and instantly started to criticize Apple for "LOL, look at this fan, it does nothing".
     
  5. TheReciever

    TheReciever D! For Dragon!

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    So do shoelaces but you dont see a lot of companies cutting them out to save on costs.
     
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  6. Felix_Argyle

    Felix_Argyle Notebook Consultant

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    Once again, you're failing to see the point. This cooling solution is functional and it does work to cool CPU. It doesn't matter how well. Louis failed to understand how it works and just said this fan is "for placebo effect" and did not even mention how the cooling system works (how the air gets pulled from air intake, how it is guided by foam air dam across the CPU and exhausted by functional exhaust fan).
     
  7. TheReciever

    TheReciever D! For Dragon!

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    Yes not putting a heatsink on the vrms and/or mosfets worked out very well. Just like the xps line up iirc. Something that could've been resolved with a dollar of investment. Instead of settling for "good enough" they could've went for soild build instead. The added weight would've only been remarkable in the products brochure.

    Your arguing semantics of someone who didn't get his point 100 percent accurate when the point is its a flawed product.

    I don't care for Rossman at all.
     
  8. electrosoft

    electrosoft Tick Tock Clarice....

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    Louis has made taking Apple to the woodshed his life's mission (even to his own detriment at times). Something tells me he knew why the heatsink was configured for a quasi passively cooled design, but still it does heat up and get uncomfortable with mundane tasks while producing lackluster results. But Apple went with the i5-8210Y for the lower TDP to help with battery life with that retina display on board now.

    It's not a very good design and in theory the chip is made for passive cooling but still gets very hot and throttles:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookair/comments/atc8np/macbook_air_overheating/

    https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookair/comments/cpzq1l/brand_new_2019_macbook_air_overheating/

    https://www.reddit.com/r/macbookair/comments/czyl2m/macbook_air_2019_overheating/

    And of course it does matter how well it cools the CPU. Working barely within spec and heating up the chassis to cause concern or impede use has merit as a potential problem.

    Notebookcheck reports it pulling 10w in single thread testing and then it pulls ~15w in dual CPU benching before dropping to ~10w (Not the 7w TDP, which is not a shocker since TDP's are suspect in notebooks and open to individualization by the maker)

    "The CPU runs at up to 3.0 GHz in the Cinebench Single test, which corresponds with a power consumption of around 10 Watts. The maximum value of 3.6 GHz is clearly missed, but the CPU temperature still reaches about 100 °C. The CB score is 131 points, which is just 10% slower than the 2017 MacBook Pro 13 but also just 9% faster than the MacBook 12 and 12% faster than the old-generation MacBook Air.

    We see the maximum Turbo of 2x 3.0 GHz during the Cinebench Multi test for the first ~10 seconds at a consumption of almost 15 Watts. However, this drops to just 2x 2.5 GHz (10 W) after another 20 seconds. The results can fluctuate a bit depending on whether the fan is already running or not. We got scores between 267 and 285 points. Both the old MacBook Air with the 5th generation Core i5 and the MacBook 12 with the Core m3 are not or just slower in one Cinebench run. This basically means the new MacBook Air only has a performance advantage for about 10 seconds compared to these two laptops, because the fan control is very slow. This improves the noise levels but not the performance. The old 2017 MacBook Pro with the Core i5 is almost 30% faster and all other competitors with modern quad-core chips are between 80 and 140% faster. The CPU performance of the MacBook Air is not reduced on battery power."

    https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Air-2018-i5-256-GB-Laptop-Review.357481.0.html
     
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  9. Felix_Argyle

    Felix_Argyle Notebook Consultant

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    I've seen those Reddit posts before making my original post. All they tell is that the body gets noticeably warm. I also seen the Notebookcheck review. Not sure why you post all of this. At all. Could Apple make it cooler by adding more heatsinks and heatpipes? Yes. So could Dell with my own G7 laptop, which gets very warm in middle area when playing games and goes up to 99C, the thermal throttle point, when running Cinebench or any game which uses up all the hardware resources (like Forza Horizon 4), using stock thermal paste. So do many other Windows laptops, from Alienware to Gigabyte to Eluktronics (look at video reviews of MAG-15, that crappy laptop throttles hard in games like BF5 even with liquid metal applied to CPU and with plenty of air intakes from top and bottom areas and heatsinks on rear and side areas). All of which have billions of heatpipes and dozens of heatsinks. That's all irrelevant, though, the original point is that the cooling system does work as designed in this MacBook Air to route airflow through CPU heatsink and Louis did not mention this fact and went with "LUL, this fan does not have a heatsink in front of it which is connected with heatpipe to CPU-mounted heatsink, therefore it does nothing".

    P.S: I don't know why I even type all of this or bothered to make this whole topic, majority of people have serious issues with reading comprehension and will either not read my sentence before this or will not understand a single word in it.
     
  10. TheReciever

    TheReciever D! For Dragon!

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    They sure dont make em' like they used to eh?
     
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