VW Shows Off Electric Car to Take on Tesla

Discussion in 'Motorized Vehicles' started by hmscott, May 9, 2019.

  1. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    VW Shows Off Electric Car to Take on Tesla
    Bloomberg Markets and Finance
    Published on May 8, 2019
    May.08 -- Volkswagen AG is now taking deposits on its new ID.3 fully electric hatchback. The German automaker is looking to take over Tesla as the electric-car leader. Bloomberg's Benedikt Kammel appears on "Bloomberg Markets."

    VW ID. First Drive | Fully Charged
    fullychargedshow
    Published on Dec 22, 2018
    An extraordinary offer came through, 'D'you want to drive the VW ID test vehicle in South Africa next week?' Took a bit of arranging but we managed, and it was worth it. Amazing car, amazing country, minimal information about either but you can read this for a bit more info:
    https://bit.ly/2BxtcqR


    VW Goes Electric... Again! with VW ID.3 Electric Hatchback
    E for Electric
    Published on May 8, 2019
    VW's first electric car in the ID series with over 300 mile range but a starting price under EUR30,000 is opening its reservations.
     
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  2. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Interestingly, the whole EV Market is dropping 3x the rate of the automotive market in general, and without Tesla's sales the drop looks disastrous with a 24% drop Q4 to Q1 2018 / 2019.

    This drop in demand doesn't look promising just as 80-120 new EV Models are slated to be released in the next 3 years.

    Where are all of those EV models going to be sold? Maybe a huge glut of models and options will drop prices into the realm of more buyers. The winners of this may be the lowest cost models out of the bunch. I'm hoping for some 20K mid-range or lower priced models.

    Whole EV Segment Drops, Even w/ Tesla - Autoline Daily 2581
    Autoline Network
    Published on Apr 25, 2019
    0:07 Tesla Q1 Worse Than Expected
    0:32 Tesla Has a Logistics Problem
    1:10 Whole EV Segment Dropping
    1:44 U.S. Headed For An EV Disaster
    2:44 Ghosn Granted Bail... Again
    3:32 Toyota Tests Satellite Images for 3D Maps
    4:16 Challenger Sales Pull Away From Camaro
    5:31 VW EV Racer Sets Sights on Nurburgring
    6:21 One Blinged Out Ford Escort
    7:12 Just a Cool Historic Picture


    Story Links:
    - To read the transcript for today's show click here: http://www.autoline.tv/daily/?p=61440...
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
  3. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Volkswagen development platform for electrics is also progressing:

    ID. R world premiere at the Nürburgring
    Volkswagen UK
    Published on Apr 29, 2019
    The updated version of the ID.R is celebrating it’s world premiere on the Nürburgring. It’s next adventure is to set a new lap record for electric cars on the legendary 20.832-kilometre-long Nordschleife. The cars aerodynamics have been completely updated in a hope that Romain Dumas beats the until-now best time of 6 minutes and 45.9 seconds.


    ID. R test on the Nürburgring-Nordschleife
    Volkswagen Motorsport
    Published on Apr 26, 2019
    One day after the world premiere for the new ID. R at the Nürburgring, Romain Dumas drove the first test laps on the Nordschleife in the fully electric race car. On the 20.832-kilometre-long circuit, the Frenchman completed an extensive testing programme, driving two alternative ID. R chassis to make optimal use of the available time. In doing so, Volkswagen Motorsport began the final preparation phase for the attempt to set a new lap record for electric vehicles on the tradition-steeped track in the Eifel with the 500 kW (680 PS) race car.
     
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  4. Convel

    Convel Notebook Deity

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    The ID.3 will undoubtedly be an important vehicle going forward. I think it fills a slightly different segment of the market than the Model 3, more aimed at practicality and feel of quality (panel gaps, service network, cabin noise), while the Tesla is better suited for driver's engagement, offering greater performance, aerodynamics, and a higher level of autonomy.

    One of the most exciting aspects of the ID.3 is that it's the first vehicle from VAG built around the new MEB platform, which will underpin a great many models in different segments across brands. With the ID.3, we will finally get to see how efficient it is. The far more expensive Audi e-Tron 55 Quattro turned out slightly underwhelming range wise, and the fact that it rides on a modified MLB Evo platform rather than being built for electricity from the ground up is partially to blame. While Tesla lacks a lot of things established premium brands have, they've certainly had a headstart when it comes to development and electric infrastructure.

    One of the key attractions of the ID.3 will be what it offers in its price range. 62 kWh (58 kWh usable), 261 miles of WLTP2 range, and 125kW DC fast charging for under 40.000€ (under 32.400€ if you substract the 19% German VAT) is nothing to scoff at. Those specs line up pretty well with the Model 3 Standard Range Plus, but availability in mid-2020 will be a blow to those who are cross-shopping.
    Easy. They'll be sold in other countries than the U.S. as well. The numbers you're referring to are strictly U.S. EV sales. The number one sales driving factor will always be politics and tax benefits, not environmentalism. In many markets, the appeal of high-performance ICE vehicles are neutered due to obscene taxing. When electric vehicles in some of those markets recieve virtually no taxes along with other economical benefits, they become very attractive. More and more European capitals are also announcing incoming bans on ICE vehicles. The market is far from saturated and traditional automakers are only now starting to gear up for EVs moving on from the early adopters phase.
     
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  5. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    I was quoting / pre-staging the data quoted in the video:
    Whole EV Segment drops in US.jpg
    It may be that the market will grow with more choice / awareness, but it's hard to believe it will grow 80x-120x, including growth for Tesla.
    US Headed for EV disaster.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
  6. Convel

    Convel Notebook Deity

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    Yes, I was disagreeing with the apparent view that the EV market as a whole (global sales) is filled with doom and gloom:
    The numbers are accurate, but while U.S. sales, particularly Tesla, saw a decline in Q1 '19, it doesn't mean the EV market is crashing. There are still a lot more countries to sell in and Tesla had a better Q1 '19 than Q1 '18.

    [​IMG]

    The bump towards the end of 2018 also has to do with Tesla's desperate measures to please shareholders, getting rid of some of the bottlenecks with tents among other measures. The Model 3 is Tesla's only volume model and it's not long since they started to get rid of their huge backlog of pre-orders. A spike in sales was to be expected.

    How I see it, the Q1 U.S. report is mostly linked to Tesla growing pains and the growth of the EV market as a whole having reversed is doubtful.

    https://cleantechnica.com/2019/05/09/a-year-in-review-the-electric-vehicle-market/
    https://cleantechnica.com/2019/04/04/3-charts-on-tesla-quarterly-delivery-trends/
    https://www.greentechmedia.com/arti...ip-tesla-deliveries-plummet-31-in-first-quart
     
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  7. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Another kink in Tesla's build vs delivery methodology is that Tesla was (is?) building out Tesla 3's and stockpiling them and when a buyer configures a purchase a match is made into the existing inventory - instead of doing a per customer custom build.

    So lots of Tesla 3's are sitting waiting to cross the counting line - but are hung in limbo until a buyer wants that exact configuration.

    Apparently Tesla was (are?) calling buyers and telling them the exact configuration they entered / ordered wasn't available and then Tesla offered to get them a "close enough" build quickly, or they would have to wait weeks for their exact match to roll off the assembly line. Wild way to run a production line, easy way to miss numbers quarter after quarter when you can't build to order.

    So yeah, lots of weird stuff clouding the demand / supply / production numbers.

    Without Tesla the EV numbers look very sad indeed though, how is that demand going to spread over 80-120 new EV models in 3 years? Even cannibalizing Tesla market share wouldn't provide enough open slots for new models - especially at the production quantities new entries are advertising - shipping numbers close to Tesla's current production now vs the competitors first year. There is no way the market can sustain those kind of EV sales / deliveries in 3 years.

    If Tesla's RoboTaxi thing takes off, who needs to buy a new car? Just pay an ever decreasing cost per trip to do the weekly chores and save $$$$'s yearly on non-car ownership. It's the wave of the future. No car in every driveway. :)
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
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  8. Convel

    Convel Notebook Deity

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    If you saw the year in reaview for 2018 I linked above, you can see that the utter Tesla dominance is a U.S. phenomenon. In other markets, you'll find other brands on the podium, though European countries are varied, so Tesla makes the the podium in some.

    Not every EV deserves to succeed. Judging by how many e-Trons and I-Paces I'm already seeing on the road, challenging the Model X, I'm not too worried about the likes of the Porsche Taycan and Mercedes EQ S failing to challenge the Model S, indeed cannibalising some of Tesla's market share in the process. Not everyone wants a Tesla and many of the buyers of premium EVs from established brands wouldn't have bought a Tesla instead, which comes down to taste in cars and brand perception. Competition, as always, is good for the consumer and the market alike.
    Yes, the trend of car ownership is reversing and no car at all is the only green alternative anyhow. I'm interested to see if the established brands will offer something similar to Tesla or if we'll see specialised rental/taxi companies offer a varied fleed once the technology and legislation is there. I'm guessing we'll mostly see the latter.
     
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  9. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    VW ID.3 Pre-Booking Volkswagen Full Press Conference
    DPCcars
    Published on May 9, 2019
    At a press event held yesterday in Berlin, Volkswagen launched pre-booking in Europe for the first model in its new full-electric ID. model family, the ID.3. Customers’ interest in the special edition, the ID.3 1ST, which is limited to 30,000 vehicles, is significantly exceeding the brand’s expectations. Sometimes, the IT systems are unable to handle the large number of users accessing the system at the same time. This leads to long waiting times and interruptions in the registration process in some markets. Volkswagen is working hard to eliminate the hitches. Nevertheless, more than 10,000 registrations were received throughout Europe during the first 24 hours.


    VW's E-Car Exceeds Expectations, Still Trails Tesla Model 3
    By Oliver Sachgau
    May 9, 2019, 7:14 AM PDT
    Updated on May 9, 2019, 7:48 AM PDT
    More than 10,000 reservations made in first 24 hours, VW says
    Volkswagen’s ID.3 gets one-tenth of Tesla’s Model 3 preorders

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...t-one-third-of-new-electric-model-in-24-hours

    ...blah blah blah, Tesla had 115,000 pre-orders for the Tesla 3 in the first 24 hours...

    Like I have been trying to communicate, where are all of the buyers going to come from for 80-120 EV models over the next 3 years, with each company wanting to quickly ramp up and deliver Tesla 3 level of shipping per month?
     
  10. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Volkswagen Opens Order Books For ID.3 Electric Car. Here’s What You Need To Know
    Transport Evolved
    Published on May 9, 2019
    Volkswagen has been promising us that it would be launching a whole slew of electric models for many years. And next year, the first all-new electric model to be launched based on its MEB electric vehicle platform -- the ID.3 -- enters into production.
    Yesterday, we got to hear more about the car for the first time, as Volkswagen officially opened the order books in Europe. Within one day, it reports receiving more than ten thousand orders.
    So what's special about the ID3? What do we know about it that we didn't previously? And why is it proving popular?
     
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