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Vaio CW Battery Drain Information

Discussion in 'Sony' started by aan310, Mar 7, 2010.

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  1. aan310

    aan310 Notebook Virtuoso

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    (I decided this needed a new thread)

    Questions
    What is Battery Drain?
    -When your computer is turned off or in sleep mode and looses large amounts of battery life.

    How do I know if I am affected?
    -To my knowledge, ALL Vaio CW computers (at least with the i5 and 330m combo). I have come to to this conclusion because I have had two of these with the same issue and I have yet to see more than one person say they do not have it on a Vaio CW

    How can I fix this?
    -Right now there is no fix for loosing battery life while 'Shutdown'. As for sleep mode, you can help make the loss less substantial by doing a 'clean install'
    Instructions here
    And also make sure that you have these settings in the 'advanced power options'


    Tests:
    All tests have been run on two different VPCCW27FX notebooks

    Test 1: 100% Battery, 4 hrs shutdown: 90%
    Test 2: 65% Battery, no HDD, 3hrs shutdown: 48%
    Test 3: 48% Battery, 'Power Saver' battery mode, 5.5 hrs shutdown: 20%
    Test 4: Wifi Switch off
    Test 5: 50% Battery, Battery out: 50%


    Conclusions:
    At the time being, there is no fix or known cause for the battery drain while shutdown. For now, myths of a clean install or using different windows battery settings make no difference, which means this is either a problem with the motherboard, BIOS or the battery it's self.




    Please post any tests you have done your self. Also, if ANYONE is using a CW i5/i3 with no shutdown drain issues, please post or PM me. (please no "my friend has one and it works" because i'd need specific info from your laptop if you do not.



    EDIT: I think I found the problem! Sony's battery care software works while the laptop is 'off'. Ex. You have battery care set to only charge up to 80%, even when the computer is off it will only go to 80%. The fact that this is still being managed means that the computer is partially still on when 'shutdown'. I will confirm this suspicion tonight I believe.
     
  2. whwtan

    whwtan Notebook Evangelist

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    Actually aan310,

    This isn't specifically a VAIO CW problem.

    I have two SZs and a Z with me now and they ALL exhibit the same problem.

    I don't really bother about sleep since we are aware that the computer is somehow still running so it could be a matter of a thousands things which could affect the battery.

    But what pisses me off is when the darned computer is switched OFF. Those batteries drain until they are totally flat. This is crazy...

    I am aware that many others in the forum have this issue too. When they pulled the battery out from the computer, the drain stopped.

    But the draining shouldn't even be happening in the first place because the computer doesn't need the power. A hibernated computer is a computer which is totally shut off. [which is why we can remove the batteries, plug them in later and still resume from hibernation]

    Stumps me and really cheeses me off.
     
  3. aan310

    aan310 Notebook Virtuoso

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    Confirmed!
    Pulling the battery makes battery life not diminish.
    So, that means my suspicions are confirmed, it's most likely due to Sony Battery Care's low level function!

    and whwtan, I know it's for many models but since i have experience with the CW, i'm going to keep it CW specific for now.
     
  4. hamud

    hamud Notebook Evangelist

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    WE know it's a Battery care problem and all vaio's with Battery care function have this problem !! but the problem we can's disable it coz it seems it has some thing in the battery it self ?
     
  5. aan310

    aan310 Notebook Virtuoso

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    It's how the program is in the BIOS, not the battery.
    So, sony would have to release a BIOS without battery care (won't happen)
     
  6. Xirurg

    Xirurg ORLY???

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    no way to turn it off?thats pathetic!
     
  7. 5ushiMonster

    5ushiMonster Notebook Deity

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    Battery care can be turned off. It's a setting in the battery circuitry, so that when you set battery care to on, it tells it to stop charging at 80%. So it's not the lappie staying awake. The battery just doesn't charge by itself because it has stored that command in its memory. You can set this in Vaio Control Centre; it can be turned off.

    Battery care is in no way RELATED to battery draining. Battery care is a feature that helps minimize the DEGRADING effect that Li-Pol batteries, which lappies today use, ultimately all experience. That is, it extends the useful lifetime of the battery. If you need a chemistry lesson, listen up!

    Li-Pol batteries experience degrading when they are charged and left near a full-charge mark (ie 100%, always plugged in). They also suffer degrading when almost / completely discharged (0%). The degrading results in the '10 minute battery life sydrome'; the usage time decreases with older batteries and laptops.
    What Battery Care does is that it prevents the battery charging to the full 100% so that it doesn't suffer as much degrading as a 100% charged battery does. So Battery Care is NOT related to battery drain. It merely aims to reduce the degarding effects that a full-charged battery experiences, by making the battery stop charging at lower levels.

    You may have noticed, but all gadgets with built-in batteries (cellphones are an example) all come with partially charged batteries, always near the 30% to 50% mark - discharged and fully charged batteries are bad for the Li-Pol cells. And the manufacturers tell you to charge new batteries overnight so that they go through an 'intro' charge of about 10 hours (even though it takes 3 to 'fully charge'), so that the battery begins its life with a proper full life. You should take this into account with everything today that runs on rechargable batteries.

    Hopefully that clears something up.

    Oh. There is an entire, 50+ page thread on the battery drain the older Z has been suffering. We did conclude that some hardware on the mobo didn't shut-down when it was supposed to (I personally confirmed the bluetooth module, but some other Z's are showing different pieces). Essentially, we need a BIOS update to get this fixed.

    http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=299109&highlight=vaio z battery drain

    And my personal poll thread requesting Sony to fix this issue
    http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=423924
     
  8. jblanteigne

    jblanteigne Notebook Consultant

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    That explains a lot...

    personally I don't really care as I rarely need to use the machine unplugged for more than 2 hours... I don't let it charge either I plug it when battery is low or when I know I'll need some battery life shortly..

    of course a 8 hours battery could be nice, but its not the most important feature to me.
     
  9. aan310

    aan310 Notebook Virtuoso

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    5ushiMonster, i understand where you are coming from, but the fact of the matter is that Battery Care indeed has a low-level counterpart (from the windows side software) that allows it to function while the laptop is powered off.
    Sony has changed motherboards, bluetooth chips, etc in many different laptops since the old Vaio Z. What diddn't? Battery Care.

    On the old Z it very well may be the bluetooth, but i cannot believe that since the old Vaio Z, that even laptops with different motherboards, bluetooth chips and BIOSes are being effected in the same way.
    I'm telling you, it's the low-level Battery Care software.
     
  10. MrSneis

    MrSneis Notebook Consultant

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    So is there some way we can turn it off?
     
  11. H.A.L. 9000

    H.A.L. 9000 308 Negra Arroyo Lane

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    See attached.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. aan310

    aan310 Notebook Virtuoso

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    That turns it off in windows, but the battery care application of the BIOS does not turn off with that. (unfortunately)
     
  13. H.A.L. 9000

    H.A.L. 9000 308 Negra Arroyo Lane

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    I've looked through a "BIOS" dump from my CW with a HEX editor and I didn't see anything about Battery Care in the BIOS itself. I saw things for other stuff thats not shown in the BIOS but they really aren't relevant to anything.
     
  14. WildSioux

    WildSioux Notebook Guru

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    Has anyone thought about just disabling the Vaio Power management all together and using just the Win 7 power management?

    I have my battery out right now since I mainly run off the PS. I was just curious if anyone could try experimenting with disabling the VAIO Power Management service so it doesn't startup and run.

    BTW, in my Vaio Control Center, I don't even have that Battery Charge Functions tab. I think it is because my battery is out though.
     
  15. aan310

    aan310 Notebook Virtuoso

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    Yea, that doesn't really fix anything unfortunatly.
     
  16. straden

    straden Notebook Guru

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    sigh... any updates on this? I was looking to buy CW or F series...
     
  17. WildSioux

    WildSioux Notebook Guru

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    Hmm, if disabling doesn't fix it. How about just uninstalling it completely and using the Windows power settings?

    If that doesn't work, then I don't see this as being a Vaio Battery care issue especially if it is still there after disabling and uninstalling the program.
     
  18. aan310

    aan310 Notebook Virtuoso

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    Well the windows application (i'm very certain) corresponds to SOMETHING low level in the system. Maybe i'm wrong...
     
  19. joluar78

    joluar78 Notebook Enthusiast

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    I noticed after each clean install the battery drain got better. I've done a clean install on my cw about 4 or 5 times now. I did a clean install last night, downloaded drivers, checked for windows updates, completely shutdown laptop with 100% charge at 2:00am, and this morning I booted up and had 94% battery life. Not sure if this helps anyone but I figured I'd post it.
     
  20. vanilla

    vanilla Notebook Geek

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    The command is stored in the battery memory? That could be the problem then. Since XGX2007 has said there doesn't seem to be any mention of Battery Care settings in the laptop BIOS, then it is very likely that the IC in the battery itself handles most of the functionality.

    The 100%, 80% or 50% command stored in the IC of the battery needs to communicated to the embedded controller on the laptop. As, we assume, the laptop BIOS is not controlling the Battery Care, it is the battery itself that does the 'talking' and the BIOS, the 'listening'. This exchange of information is taking place even when shutdown as the EC needs to be told at what level to charge the battery at.

    I think the reason why it's the battery itself that handles most of the Battery Care is because it allows a user to have many spare batteries and have a different charge setting for each battery eg. a user with two batteries may have a standard battery plugged in all the time, set at 50% but also have a spare extended battery, set at 80%.
     

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