The ThrottleStop Guide

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by unclewebb, Nov 7, 2010.

  1. Che0063

    Che0063 Notebook Consultant

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    Your m3-7Y30 will become best friends with TS. What are your thermals right now? If they are below 70C under full load, you might have some success disabling power limits
    upload_2019-1-6_20-28-19.png
    And change these values to, for example, a more conservatine 8-10W first
    upload_2019-1-6_20-28-48.png

    I guarantee you on stock settings Your m3-7Y30 would be throttling to 4.5W or 7W. You can get much better sustained combined iGPU plus core performance via this method. I will warn you that I've seen my m3-7Y30 use up to 16W with the Core plus GPU fully loaded. My Teclast can only dissipate 13W passively to a temp of 93. I know this because I have set my unlocked BIOS to automatically throttle my CPU to maintain a temperature of 93C. This type of throttling shows up as AVG THERMAL in TS's Limit Reasons reason. If I add an external fan blowing under the laptop, the laptop can dissipate upwards of 15W. On stock limits I think you will see PL1 or PL2 light up in red in TS>Limit Reasons.
    Changing the TDP is likely the single biggest benefit your CPU can have. Unfortunately, I've heard reports that the Surfaces use a skin sensor and use the value of the skin sensor to ruduce heat. This is done in an attempt to make the laptop exterior cooler. For my device, I have added a thermal pad transferring the heat to the base of the laptop. As you can imagine, the base gets so hot it burns my lap when I use it on my legs. I look forward to using it in the winter though.

    If you keep hitting this skin sensor wall, unless you can unlock your BIOS, tehre's not much you can do about it unfortunately. If you see this type of throttling, your CPU should not be throttling to either 4.5W or 7W, but rather, some other arbitraty wattage as the CPU tries to comform with the skin temperature limit. You might see something like 'SKIN TEMP' or something in TS>Limit Reasons.

    Undervolting should give you a little performance boost, but I don't think m-series CPUs can undervolt by much. I can 'only' do -80mV.
     
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  2. -BaTaB-

    -BaTaB- Notebook Consultant

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    Nice one. Will do everything you suggest. But what do you mean by "full load"? ...is TS bench enough or you mean full AVX load like prime or similar?
     
  3. Che0063

    Che0063 Notebook Consultant

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    Anything you define it to be. Could be Prime95 + Furmark (=throttling guaranteed on almost all mobile CPUs) or a simple TS Bench. The former can easily double, even triple the power consumption of the latter.
     
  4. -BaTaB-

    -BaTaB- Notebook Consultant

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    Now, first question arises.

    Why with cpu-only load (TS bench), I can't go over 1.5 GHz (with speedstep)? ...pkg power does not exceed 4.5 W and I see no limits at all popping out in the limits window...

    isn't this weird? Shouldn't it try to apply turbo frequencies till it starts throttling? ...Plus temps are not going over 40-41°C

    ...even by disabling speedstep and enabling speedshift with 0 SST I can barely go over 1.5 - 1.6 GHz...same temps and no limits popping
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  5. Solid Eye

    Solid Eye Notebook Geek

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    Sorry about that, I meant in general what does these options control?
    I have GT75 Titan 8RG with i7 8750H and this is the screenshots of all of my settings: https://imgur.com/a/2H5doB7
     
  6. Che0063

    Che0063 Notebook Consultant

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    What power plan are you on? Ensure that 'max processor state' is set to 100% in power plan settings.
    upload_2019-1-7_6-45-15.png

    Also ensure your Turbo Ratio Limits are set correctly. If they don't go over 1.6 in TS Bench, does the CPU go to 2.4GHz at all? The all core turbo for the M3-7Y30 is 2.4GHz
     
  7. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    You should be. The day that Microsoft decides to start blocking WinRing0, it is game over for ThrottleStop. So far I think the WinRing0 driver is only being blocked in the recent Windows 10 Insider Preview version, 1809 - 18305.1003

    No workarounds at the moment and there likely never will be.

    Where are some screenshots? How can I make ThrottleStop better without seeing how it is doing in the wild?

    Intel CPUs use two power limits to control the turbo boost function. There is a short term power limit and a long term power limit. A mobile CPU with a 45 Watt long term turbo power limit might have a short term turbo power limit of about 55 Watts. When you first start running a stress test, the CPU will max out at 55 Watts and then after a short period of time, the CPU will automatically slow down so it does not exceed 45 Watts. The main turbo time limit controls how much time the CPU is allowed to run at the high power limit before it must slow down to the low power limit. ThrottleStop lets you set this to a sky high value of 3670016 seconds but the practical limit is usually a lot less than that. 28 seconds is a common value for this. Sky high values will likely be ignored by the CPU so it is probably best to use a more realistic time limit.

    The main turbo limits are for the entire CPU package. The PP0 limit refers only to the CPU cores. The PP1 power limit only applies to the Intel GPU. When these settings are not being used, they are usually set to 0.

    When a CPU reaches the long term turbo power limit there are two things that can happen. If Clamp is not checked, the CPU should only reduce its speed to its default speed. The 8750H has a Base Frequency of 2.20 GHz so it should not go below this value when power throttling. If Clamp is checked, then the CPU will reduce the CPU speed as much as necessary to literally clamp the CPU to the power limit you have set. If the power limit was set very low to 10 Watts, when stress testing, the CPU would be forced to slow down to a crawl to make sure that power consumption does not exceed 10 Watts.

    Your screenshot shows that you have set both of the power limits to 200 Watts. There is a possibility that your CPU will ignore this value. There are a variety of power limits within Intel CPUs. When it comes to throttling, the lowest power limit wins. Even with these two limits set to 200 Watts, during a long term stress test, some laptops will still force the CPU to throttle so it does not exceed its Intel rated 45 Watt TDP value.

    Thanks for the pics. To better understand how these settings and how Intel CPUs work, open Limit Reasons, run the TS Bench, and while the CPU is loaded, adjust these settings and watch what happens to the CPU speed and watch to see if any throttling flags light up in Limit Reasons. This program was built with experimentation in mind. You learn more doing hands on testing than you do by reading a wall of text in a forum. If you do some testing, share what you learned by posting some pics. Intel makes way too many CPUs for me to understand them all.

    If your CPU is throttling or running like crap, yes, you should try doing anything and everything to stop that from happening. If your CPU runs like a beast, go enjoy playing some games.
     
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  8. Radioo

    Radioo Newbie

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    I registered just to say thank you unclewebb!

    Thanks to your tool I was able to squeeze an aditional 30% out of my Lenovo 320s ikb13. -95 mV on Core and Cache as well as upping power draw to 35W did the trick. The cpu now hits termal throttling at 95°c, at which point clock gets reduced from 3400 to 3200. 3200 mhz while drawing 25W is much faster than before.

    So thanks mate!

    P.s. if someone knows how to squeeze enen better perf out of a 8250u, I would be interested to hear.
     
  9. Solid Eye

    Solid Eye Notebook Geek

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    This is extremely rich, and explained very very very well! THANK you so much for your time and effort, really appreciate it. and yes I do the benchmark every time I adjust a new settings, setting the timers too high gave me the best score for 64M = 6.1. and no limits of any sorts since one month so far. the only one can give me EDP and thermal throttle is prime95 in matter of few seconds! again thank you.
     
  10. Vasudev

    Vasudev Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    That day most users will stick with older versions w/o updates.
     
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