The ThrottleStop Guide

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by unclewebb, Nov 7, 2010.

  1. Vasudev

    Vasudev Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    @ThatOldGuy has written a guide to auto start XTU. You can get all XTU features in TS w/o impacting system performance.
     
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  2. macaco000

    macaco000 Notebook Enthusiast

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    By default, is SpeedStep On or Off ?
    I have a Kaby Lake i7-7700hq, I'm pretty sure it was ON when I installed TS for the first time. Today I had to reinstall it ( deleted throttlestop.ini and restarted my laptop ) and SpeedStep was OFF when I launched TS.
    I've also noticed that my clocks remain at 3.7Ghz (which is the Max) most of the time even while browsing the internet.
     
  3. GTMoraes

    GTMoraes Notebook Consultant

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    Default on, but as the 7th gen has SST, SpeedStep doesn't matter because it has been superseded by SpeedShift
     
  4. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    Did you open up the TPL window in ThrottleStop and try increasing the Package Power Limits in there? If you tried this and it is not working when stress testing then at least post a picture so I can see the TPL window and the throttling that you are seeing.

    Is a fast computer a bad thing? The original purpose of ThrottleStop was to make sure your CPU could run at its rated speed and with an unlocked processor, maybe a little beyond that. The important thing to watch when your CPU is idle is how much time it is spending in the various C States and what C States it is using. That data is extremely important to lowering power consumption. CPU speed, not so much.

    If you want a slower computer when it is lightly loaded, I would recommend enabling Speed Shift on your 7th Gen CPU and I would set the Speed Shift - EPP value on the main screen to 80. If you do this, SpeedStep enabled or disabled does not matter. As always, if you need help, post some pictures. I am a narcissist. I need to see TS pictures plastered all over the web, especially in this forum here. It also makes problem solving a lot easier.
     
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  5. GTMoraes

    GTMoraes Notebook Consultant

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    Hey unclewebb, a friend of mine is experiencing a weird issue on his Dell with an i5-8250U and a GeForce 940MX 4GB
    His FPS was dropping when gaming, at seemingly random intervals. It seemed like it was hitting the PL1 during gaming and BD PROCHOT was acting up to me, so I suggested him to get TS and enable logs so I could see what was going on with his system.

    At first I told him to disable BD PROCHOT and try playing. It didn't help, so he got a log for me.

    https://hastebin.com/boxogodivo.css
    It was clear that it was hitting the PL1 a couple of times. I also noticed that the C0% peaked a couple of times. Temps seem fine

    I told him to limit his CPU to Multiplier 30 (like I did with mine, to keep a stable frequency when playing) and set SST to 0, and check how it was now

    https://hastebin.com/adutexonag.css
    He told me the lag became a bit more frequent and harder now. Used to dip to 25FPS, but now it goes to single digits. The logs show that the frequency is now stable and temperatures are reasonable (his PROCHOT is 97°C). The PL1 seems to want it around 12W for some reason

    I told him to install Intel XTU and increase the TDP limit there. It was set to 20W, and we increased it to 28W. We also increased the Turbo time to 64s. I also got him to log the GPU temp now. He closed XTU afterwards

    https://hastebin.com/qiguwegolu.css
    Logs look good, but to my surprise, he told that the FPS drops became even more frequent, making the game rather unplayable, in contrast of bothersome as before my tweaks. I don't see any Limit Reasons logged and temperatures seems alright.

    Then I told him to return to the default profile (maximum multiplier achievable, SST to 128) and try logging again.

    https://hastebin.com/qodacocixe.css
    Now he told me the game doesn't drop FPS anymore, but that's because the game seems to not get past 10FPS anymore. It's perpetually slow and completely unplayable now.
    I've noticed that the GPU is lowering the temperature in the process, even turning completely off sometimes. The only thing I can think of is a hidden 80°C limit that throttles everything, even with BD PROCHOT unchecked in TS.
    Other than that, I'm completely out of ideas.

    What is possibly going on on his system?
     
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  6. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    @GTMoraes - Thanks for posting some log files. Much appreciated.

    I think the biggest problem is that his 940MX does not have enough muscle to play the game he is playing at the resolution and settings that he is trying to play at. Might want to log the GPU speed next. The GPU is either throttling or perhaps simply inadequate. Maybe try GPU-Z for logging. Getting the CPU to run at its rated speed might be taking power away from the GPU causing it to slow down.
     
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  7. GTMoraes

    GTMoraes Notebook Consultant

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    The game works fine, then suddenly and randomly dips to 20ish FPS, then return to what it was previously. It seemed to me to be momentarily throttling. He told me it's not related to the scenery or events in game. It's completely random and might happen even if he's standing still (He's trying to play Rocket League)

    I'll try logging the GPU MHz and usage next. I didn't think that allowing for the CPU to run faster could starve the GPU resources. Seems to be the case, because at every progress I thought I made with CPU performance and limits, the game performance decreased substantially.

    My first thought was some invisible limit, but if there's a "power pool", the CPU might be taking it all for himself and GPU is unable to perform correctly.
    I'll try suggesting undervolt and even lower frequencies (2.4GHz perhaps?) and see if that helps somehow

    ----

    I've now seen in HWiNFO that the GPU too have well defined limits. I'm gonna keep an eye for that
     
  8. cktducky

    cktducky Notebook Guru

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    The situation seems to be so odd that there is something not work as our expected.

    Alternatively, you can simply run GPU-Z with LinX to check the working status during high workload. As the picture in "Sensors" tab of GPU-Z, check the status of green circle is maximum or not all the time, GPU Core Clock, GPU Memory Clock with checking the corresponding temperature of the GPU and its Power used, also check the graph in purple circle can be kept as maximum steadily or not during running Render Test.

    2018-07-11_123334.jpg
     
  9. GTMoraes

    GTMoraes Notebook Consultant

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    Very interesting stress test. I ran it on my laptop just out of curiosity and it surely did stress! It's the first time since I repasted this thing that I've heard the thermal switch kicking in and pushing the fans to 100%. Right on time too, as soon as the CPU hovered 90°C, it kicked in and helped it lower to 80°C.
    Though the Render Test from GPU-Z was quite unstable (it was locking up, and when it locked up, the GPU Core clock reduced, inducing hiccups in the graph), I managed to stress the GPU through OpenCL with Luxmark. It was nice to see how much the OpenCL process impacted in performance (CPU performance fell from ~120 GFlops to 35 GFlops!)

    [​IMG]

    I let it run until LinX finished (which took ~8:50s under that condition), and it has been very stable at 81°C GPU and 80~85°C CPU. However after 8 minutes I noticed a couple of new icons on Limit Reasons on ThrottleStop I've not seen before, "VR THERMAL" on both CPU and GPU. I guess it's the VRM thermal protection that kicked in. I was about to put some heatsinks on it, but given it's an absurd load, I can safely say this system might not encounter these limits again in its whole lifetime lol

    Good tip on GPU-Z graphs. The MX150 has a bit more info on this Sensors tab, and it clearly shows what's throttling the GPU in my case: VRel and PWR, Reliable stable voltage and Power limit respectively. They're normal to have, so this means the GPU isn't being throttled by problems.

    I'll push his system later and see what it squeaks
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
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  10. cktducky

    cktducky Notebook Guru

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    Glad to hear you can get some breakthrough in this issue. You can put some heatsinks on the MOSFETs and the coils of the VRM part to see it can improve or not. However, as my experience, the heat dissipation from the VRM is quite high, so you can see all display cards do not use the separated heatsinks and they use a large heatsink to cover all VRMs' heat components and the memory chips or use the main heatsink shared with the GPU. The main point I want to say is, the cooling method should be active way, that is there is a fan, to cool the heatsinks. Otherwise, it may not help so much.

    In fact, it is not easy to do that in the laptop, although I can see some people to work it out using copper duct with small copper plane to let the heat transfer to the main fan on the laptop, not many people have this technique to do such DIY on the laptop in that limited space. Thus, if the back cover of your laptop is metal, I think it should be, using the back cover to cool the components is far easier.

    Recently, I did that DIY on my laptop and it gets some help to dissipate the heat from the CPU and its heatpipe with the not heavy loading, at least, the time with turning on the CPU fan is less than before and the fan speed is lower than before too. Also, by this means, you can simply cool your back cover of laptop in order to cool the hot components inside your laptop.

    SAM_1980.jpg SAM_1970.jpg SAM_1983.jpg SAM_1984.jpg SAM_1988.jpg

    The blue one is thermal pad, the thermal paste on the heatpipe is Liquid Ultra and Gelid GC Extreme.

    So you can try this method if there is no any other method you can try or achieve.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
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