The ThrottleStop Guide

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by unclewebb, Nov 7, 2010.

  1. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKS = That sucks! Dont wast your $$ on FILTH

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    Several ways to implement throttling (Crippling). How Dell cripple performance explained by..... And This is only the tip of the iceberg. More will come.
     
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  2. Mindfull

    Mindfull Newbie

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    [​IMG] Hello Again - I attach a picture of my screen - can you tell me what the 0.9500 v readout means?

    I have tried increasing the voltage and that stopped the BSODs but now I want to try undervolting.

    Does this screen say Throttlestop has already done this for me?
     
  3. teq9er

    teq9er Notebook Geek

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    LOL! How you know I got a Dell? :)

    But yeah, so is that what the Limits button is for? I wasn't sure what it meant before but it makes sense if that's what it did...to show me why my XPS actually throttled because it may not be the processor even though PROCHOT was checked.
     
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  4. Vasudev

    Vasudev Notebook Prophet

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    Well he is Darth Plagueis and he knows his way.
    Aside from undervolting, uncheck Speedstep and check-off Speedshift in Main window and in TPL.
     
  5. Vasudev

    Vasudev Notebook Prophet

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    Well he is Darth Plagueis and he knows his way. You need a repaste or send the unit back if its in return window period. Use traditional paste first and you should see 10C temps in max temps.
     
  6. GTMoraes

    GTMoraes Notebook Consultant

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    My i7 4700HQ laptop died and I bought what I thought to be a good-enough laptop CPU: All-not-new 8th gen 14nm+++++++ i7 8550U

    It's a U. Unclewebb said they're cancer. But it's 4 cores, 8 threads. Should be cool, huh? Might be good enough to replace my old 4700HQ pal (may it rest in peace on silicon heaven)
    And it completely handles 3.7GHz just fine at 25W ~75°C! Great piece of tech, definitely a step-up from my 4700HQ

    ...but then it cripples to 2.6GHz 15W ~50°C because butts
    mmmmmmmmaybe because the VRM can't handle extended periods of 15W+ but most likely they wanted to keep the temperatures low

    I definitely should've gone with what unclewebb said about U processors.
    Oh well.

    Can anythign be done in that regard? Do I have to unlock the BIOS again to access more power options?
     
  7. Che0063

    Che0063 Notebook Consultant

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    What are your Limit Reasons? If it is anything but PL2 or PL1 then I can't help you.

    My laptop has the 8250U + MX150, so quite similar with yours.

    When I play Cities Skylines my CPU is running at 100% TDP limited to 25W (edited by me) and my MX150 overclocked +1000MHz on VRAM and ~+200MHz on the Core so the CPU and GPU combined is outputting about 50W of heat. My temperatures are about 70-75C, which is fine but I don't want to get my liquid metal temperatures high.

    It depends on your VRMs - I know for certain that Dell XPS's VRMs can't handle more than 15W of power but my XiaoMi can handle the CPU running at 3.1GHz full turbo drawing 40W indefinitely, and the only limit is the temperature, which I stopped after about 1 minute when the CPU got up to 80C.

    If your Limit Reasons is only the Power Limit, then you might be able to raise that power limit but only if your manufacturer hasn't locked down other things such as thermal/current limits.

    Keep in mind that I once saw my 8250U draw 56W @ 3.1GHz but 15W @ 1.6GHz. Twice the performance but more than 3x the heat. with no undervolt running Prime95... You get significantly lower benefits on higher clock speeds with the 8th gen U CPUs. Intel was desperate to compete with Ryzen mobile and so they decided to ramp voltages up.




    These CPUs aren't cancer, it depends on the manufacturer. A 8550U limited to 15W is about equal in performance to a 4700HQ at 45W, so that is quite an improvement.
     
  8. GTMoraes

    GTMoraes Notebook Consultant

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    It's a Lenovo Ideapad 320-15IKB (Type 81G3). Not sure about the VRM on that thing. How'd I know?
    The Limit Reasons is PL1 and EDP OTHER. PowerCut on FIVR is locked and PL3 is locked and disabled on TPL

    I've noticed that by undervolting, it achieves higher clocks using the same power (sounds logic). I can undervolt that thing safely only up to to -110mV. At -115mV it would randomly reboot at prolonged high CPU usage (e.g. 2hr+ gaming session). It's currently drawing 15W at 2.7GHz, full CPU usage and with the MX150 disabled/idle. 3.7GHz pulls 30W from the Package with 100% CPU usage.
    It gets hot as is during gaming, and I need to set a specific profile for gaming, otherwise it would keep trying to run at 4GHz, which would, with the help of the MX150, be poking into 85°C, then it would back down a little, then trying to run at 4GHz over and over again. I found 3.2GHz to be a sweet spot for gaming, as neither the CPU or GPU goes over 75°C, and nothing I game on mobile uses that much CPU anyway.

    However I have two "issues":
    - I feel that the CPU is largely underutilized during CPU-only tasks. I firmly believe it could run great at 3.7 or even 4GHz for a good time. However I'm not so sure about the rest of the supporting hardware, such as the VRM.
    If my Limit Reasons is PL1 and EDP OTHER, could that be bypassed?

    - Running AVX instructionsets kills my laptop under 10 seconds lol. Temp spikes up to 94°C without the fans even having time to spool up and it shutdowns the machine for a couple of seconds (scary on the first time, I must confess).
    I think that's a question better directed to @unclewebb . I've read that the CPU greatly throttles to compensate for AVX instructions (which would still much more effective than a non-throttled system on these scenarios), however with ThrottleStop, it just breaks everything, as it doesn't throttle and I think I've seen the power package going over 80W lol
    Could ThrottleStop detect such scenarios and allow throttling?

    Btw I'm stoked to see some benchmakrs between the 4700HQ and the 8550U. They're pretty much equal.
    Not sure if I'm more impressed by a 4 year old CPU having the power of a newer CPU, or the newest one achieving the same performance a "high power" CPU used to get, and producing less heat and consuming way less power.
    The U might not be cancer, anyway.

    Also, are you monitoring your GPU frequencies? I haven't bothered overclocking the core clock from mine, because it would throttle for temperature even at stock frequencies. Overclocking wouldn't do anything, I think.
    VRAM overclock, on other hand, might be interesting. I thought that running a +300Mhz overclock on it was pushing it over the edge, but I'll try pumping it up a little closer to 1000
     
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  9. Che0063

    Che0063 Notebook Consultant

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    Unless you are using your iGPU (integrated GPU) it should be using minimal power.

    If your computer becomes permanently broken due to you, as the user, overheating it or causing to handle too much current, the laptop is *extremely* poorly designed. Most VRMs throttle when they exceed their current or thermal limit. You would know if your VRMs are not capable of handling that much current if VRM Thermal/Current lights up in red in ThrottleStop Limit Reasons.

    A system shutting down seems scary. Funnily enough, every single laptop I've owned (4 Acers and 1 Xiaomi now) don't ever throttle their CPUs until it reaches the PROCHOT temperature, about 97C. The GPU, however, seems to begin to throttle slightly at about 80C, but its not like a low end dGPU ever reaches 80C without the CPU first reaching 100C. I find that GPUs run at far lower temperatures than CPUs on laptops.


    EDP Other is difficult to mitigate, but PL1 can be raised. You can try to use XTU first to raise your Long term power limit and see if that does anything.

    My MX150 has a TDP limit of 25W (presumably). When I overclock the GPU, the memory stays locked on to the +1GHz VRAM clock but the Core Clock varies to keep in line with the power limit. Meh, the core clock doesn't actually make that much of a difference, GDDR5 VRAM speed affects the performance much more.

    My teacher has come in and class has started, I'll add more information when I get back home
     
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  10. GTMoraes

    GTMoraes Notebook Consultant

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    It's an ideapad. I highly doubt it's goodly designed. I'd trust ThinkPads, but IdeaPads...
    I still think my last one died because I messed too much with VCCIN and power limits, heh.

    I can briefly see the PROCHOT lighting up, fruitlessly. The fan begin spooling up, but it's useless. System shutdowns even before the fan hits 100% RPM. Power spikes so high it can't even think about it.
    Same things happens with my desktop, but it's watercooled, so handles better. Still, it's scary to see a system I designed to work below 65°C hitting 80°C so quickly, before the radiator does its miracle.

    Wanna experience? Run the latest Prime95 Small FFT test. At your own risk, of course. It should panic and shutdown under 3 seconds
    I also think it isn't exactly healthy for the system

    Can't ThrottleStop raise the Long Term Power Limit? I thought I messed with that on TPL. I'll install XTU and see what I can do there.

    Thanks for the tips!

    ---------------------

    Hah I'm genuinely impressed!
    I increased the long term power limit on XTU and managed to shave 42 seconds from the 1024M test. It finished in 160.16 seconds, rather than 202.4 seconds
    Though it hit PROCHOT by the finish, I consider it a success because the 15W limit has been bypassed.
    I'd never know that XTU had something ThrottleStop didn't!

    Now, off to tweak the frequency for some optimal temperature x performance...
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
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