The ThrottleStop Guide

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by unclewebb, Nov 7, 2010.

  1. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    @b_force - Now I understand what you are talking about. A 4712MQ has a power rating of only 37 Watts. Intel designed this CPU to slow down and throttle to 2.3 GHz whenever it is running an app that exceeds this limit. PowerCut prevents the CPU from reporting the actual power consumption. This allows a CPU to run at full speed regardless of power consumption. You should be able to overclock too with no more throttling. PowerCut is a wonderful feature when your CPU supports it. You can thank @Dufus for PowerCut as well as the vast majority of ThrottleStop's other useful features.

    @Falkentyne - When people are talking laptops, I always think about laptops from the good old days where you would just reach behind and slide out the battery. A 2 second procedure. I forgot that many modern laptops have batteries buried deep inside. Don't bother disassembling just to show me a screenshot.

    I do not own a laptop with a 7th Gen processor so I have done zero hands on testing. HWiNFO is a very thorough program when it comes to monitoring so I am not too surprised that it is detecting something that ThrottleStop Limit Reasons is missing. Without relevant hardware or access to the full Intel documentation, I have taken ThrottleStop about as far as it can go. It's had a good run.

    @ribben - Your Xeon is reporting that voltage adjustment is locked. Thanks for offering to do a MSR dump but once something like this is locked, it cannot be unlocked by ThrottleStop. If it can be unlocked, this would need to be done either by Intel or by the bios.

    You should be angry. People pay a lot of money for laptops and some of them become completely useless because of throttling problems. These problems only get worse after a laptop gets older.

    ThrottleStop is not designed to fix AMD GPU throttling problems. What you can try though is using ThrottleStop to slow you CPU down so it reduces power consumption and heat. You should also try under volting the CPU Core and CPU Cache. Reducing the maximum CPU Cache speed can also help without killing performance too much. The goal is to prevent GPU throttling from ever happening. For testing CPU speed, click on Disable Turbo. That will limit your maximum CPU speed to 2.7 GHz. When combined with a -50 mV voltage reduction, you might be able to reduce your peak temperatures by 10°C.

    Dell packed a capable CPU and GPU into your laptop but it seems like the engineers never considered what would happen if a user tried to use both of them at their full rated speed at the same time.
    Sad, very sad. :(
     
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  2. Falkentyne

    Falkentyne Notebook Deity

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    @unclewebb
    We found the problem, and why throttlestop doesn't detect anything.
    It's MSI cancer firmware. Something @Prema has fixed on Evoc systems.

    Basically, on AC power, with battery removed, total power draw is limited to 60%.
    This also applies if battery is lower than 30%. This throttling is not picked up on throttlestop but is picked up on HWinfo.

    The other problem (which is an active discussion on the "Pascal bios editor" thread in the Clevo section) is MSI cancer firmware detecting whether a GTX 1070 or 1080 is installed, and limiting total system power to 230W if a 1070 is installed (7RE is shown in the Bios) or 330W if a 1080 is installed. Since there is a pascal bios editor now, we can exceed the MXM 1070 TDP of 115W, and match the desktop TDP of 151W to 170W. This requires an SPI Programmer because NVflash won't flash it.

    The problem is, if the bios detects the 1070 and limits total system draw to 230w, going past 230W will cause "power limit 2 / EDP Other" throttling on the CPU and limit it to 45W. It can't throttle the GPU so it hits the CPU. basically, the MSI GT73VR 7RE and 7RF are identical. The Bioses are byte 100% identical, the EC firmwares are identical. The difference is: 1) the 7RE comes with a GTX 1070, and a 230W power supply. 2) the 7RF comes with a GTX 1080 and 330W PSU.

    If you use a 330W PSU on the 7RE, it doesn't matter, because the firmware is limiting the total power, drawing slowly from the battery at >160W, and triggering PL2/EDP Other (picked up by throttlestop) if total system power exceeds 230W. I'm trying to see if there is a Bios mod that can be done to 'trick' or force the Bios or EC to think a 1080 is installed and use 7RF mode, so I can bypass the 230W limit.

    Clearly MSI didnt think that 1) someone would use a 330W PSU with a GTX 1070, 2) that a pascal editor would ever come out to allow more than 115W from a 1070.
    Cancer firmware, limiting enthusiasts.

    @Prema has already fixed and removed all of MSI's cancer throttling on the EVOC barebones systems.
     
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  3. tribaljet

    tribaljet Notebook Consultant

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    I do have to say the thought of localized editions having rendering issues didn't cross my mind, mainly as I expected any disparities to be absent in modern OSes. In any case, take your time and I will definitely look into how 8.40 will perform and give feedback of it, that you can be sure of :) Not only for myself but for any users that might face similar issues.

    Also, your idea of UI font size adjustments is quite interesting, same for the previously suggested idea of being able to adjust main TS window size, as well as the monitoring section's column width being adjustable, but then again those would possibly be workarounds for a core issue. That said, my main doubt was what could've changed from 8.40 to the current Obsidian 8.48 that could've impacted fonts in such a way when being used in the same system without any changes.
     
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  4. b_force

    b_force Newbie

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    Interesting.

    When Windows 7 power schedule is set to max, and TS is being turned off, the multiplier sits around 30~32.
    The Core C state is at C7 for 90% (more or less), the package C state sits on C2 most of the time.

    But it still doesn't explain why I had this behavior never before (and you have to believe my word on that)
    Like I said, the CPU speeds where always locked at 2.3GHz and just occasionally went up to >3.1Ghz.
    But that was just for a very brief period of time (like 2-3 sec at most).

    So my question still is, could the Power Cut option in TS unlock this limit?
    I mean, this Clevo isn't the best laptop in the world, and I also can see the potential heat problems allowing the laptop going op that high.
    Simply because the cooling system isn't adequate enough. (maybe I will fire on my CNC to develop a better one, lol)

    edit, some extra information.
    According to the help file, I set VCCIN to 1.7402V to activate the power cut option.

    Could that have changed something?
     
  5. lazat

    lazat Notebook Enthusiast

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    Hi Unclewebb!

    I love your software and i have written from time to time on this thread before with problems and the community here is great :) I've been using your program since like 2009 or something like that and i've always loved it. But my biggest problem is that you make it expire. I currently run it on like 10 of my extended families computers + my own laptops. And suddenly i get calls, my computer is slow again etc and then i know this software have yet again expired :(

    Could you please please release a version which wont expire, which i can use? You've answered this before, that you want it this way. But i honestly don't understand why their cant exist one version which doesnt have the time expiration thingy. Just write that if people are using that, dont ask questions or report error. Make it clear that people have to use the version that expire unless they know what they are doing.

    Best regards,
    Joel
     
  6. artic_squirrel

    artic_squirrel Notebook Enthusiast

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    the program in version 4.8 fails to start at start up. whatever option I choose to make it start up, nothing happens at boot....
     

    Attached Files:

  7. artic_squirrel

    artic_squirrel Notebook Enthusiast

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    I support this too
     
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  8. syncd

    syncd Newbie

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    Hi,
    First of all i'd like to thank @unclewebb for making this tool. It's been a godsend in trying to diagnose some issues I've been having with my laptop.

    I've got a new Xiaomi Air 13 (i5 6200u with a NVidia 940MX) and I've been having some issues with it. Randomly, under light/medium load and with normal temperatures (30C-40C) it starts beeping, gets a BD_PROCHOT from some component and gets stuck at 400Mhz (never returning to normal). Looking at ThrottleStop while it is under this looks like the images attached.

    Now, from here, if I disable BD_PROCHOT on ThrottleStop it obviously gets back to normal. If I keep going and run something that puts the laptop under stress (while monitoring temperatures which go to 70C-80C), the fans start spinning up and after a time I can reenable BD_PROCHOT and it won't get throttled anymore... I know this isn't an advisable thing to do, but somehow it fixes the issue (though not always).

    I'm trying to find out more about what can be causing the BD_PROCHOT and a way to fix this, and I would like to hear your opinion about this. I intend to open it up, reapply the thermal paste to the CPU and GPU and check the fans (waiting to get the tools to open it up), but i'm afraid this won't fix the issue.

    Sorry if something along these lines has already been discussed in this thread, I read the first and last few pages, but I confess to not having gone through it all.

    Thanks in advance.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  9. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    @syncd - If disabling BD PROCHOT fixes your throttling problem then leave it disabled. It is obvious that either a sensor on your motherboard or within your power adapter has gone bad. Some laptops use puny and pathetic little power adapters that cannot supply enough power for normal use. You can pull your hair out trying to find out what sensor is bad or why this is happening but why bother. Disabling BD PROCHOT blocks signals from these sensors from getting to the CPU so it can run at its full Intel rated speed like it is supposed to. Remember, disabling BD PROCHOT will not prevent your CPU from thermal throttling if it ever gets too hot. Disabling BD PROCHOT only blocks out external signals from throttling the CPU.

    I would also disable the Clamp option in the ThrottleStop Turbo Power Limits window and I would consider using the Speed Shift feature. An EPP value of 0 will get you maximum performance for gaming, etc. and a setting of 80 or 128 is a nice compromise kind of setting for when running on battery power. Post some more screenshots if you need help with this.

    With BD PROCHOT disabled, if you are still having problems, go do some gaming or whatever you like to do and turn on the TS - Log File feature so you have a record of your CPU's performance. You can upload log file data to www.pastebin.com

    Your CPU is only a low power U CPU with a 15 Watt TDP power limit so it might not be able to deliver the kind of performance that you are looking for. It would be interesting to see some log file data just to see how it is performing and to see if there are any other bizarre throttling schemes kicking in during normal use. That is why I like using Speed Shift. It can be used to over come some throttling schemes and manufacturers are not expecting anyone to be using Speed Shift. The element of surprise. :)

    I already did.

    https://www.techpowerup.com/download/techpowerup-throttlestop/

    Click on Show more versions and download TS 6.00. It does not expire. There is also a TS 7.00 version available on the internet that does not expire because someone decided to crack it.

    I have spent thousands of dollars and put thousands of hours into developing and supporting ThrottleStop to help out as many users as possible. How did the user community respond? Let's just say that the Donate button was used so infrequently that I removed it to save myself the embarrassment. To prove this point, my wife went out picking bottles out of garbage cans one day and made more in a couple of hours than I was making in a couple of months. Ouch. That hurt. My begging days are over.

    Now I just work on ThrottleStop at my own pace for my own satisfaction. Next time I am out of work and I am getting hungry, I might release a commercial version of ThrottleStop that does not expire and then the user community can decide if they want to support it or not. Until then, the most recent versions will continue to be expiring freeware.
     
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  10. Falkentyne

    Falkentyne Notebook Deity

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    leftsenseless likes this.
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