The ThrottleStop Guide

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by unclewebb, Nov 7, 2010.

  1. Vasudev

    Vasudev Notebook Nobel Laureate

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  2. Che0063

    Che0063 Notebook Evangelist

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    What C state is your CPU idling in now? C3?


    I have this exact problem. When I do a clean install of Windows 10 from the Microsoft website, my CPU won't go any lower than the C3 state, according to ThrottleStop. This causes the CPU to idle at 1.4W, regardless of clock speed.

    However, I upgraded my laptop to an SSD the day I got my laptop, as it came with a WD10-JPVX HDD. THis is the issue:

    The HDD version of Windows that acer gave me is Windows 10 10240, and that installation of windows allows the CPU to go down to the C7 state. CPU Power consumption is reduced to 0.4W on idle

    The SSD version, no matter what version, 10240, 10586, 14393, or 10563 won't work.

    So what I do is, I clone the HDD to my SSD, and then do whatever I want from there.

    I can confirm for sure that it is not the Windows Power Plan that is causing the issue, I exported and imported it using the powercfg -import {Insert Power plan GUID here} command.


    This leads me to believe that it is a driver issue, with Windows not recognizing the proper C state? Idk

    I have never bothered downloading drivers from Acer's website, it hasn't been updated for months. Try updating yours, and downloading the drivers from your manufacturers device. When I say update your device drivers, I don't mean downloading some stupid program like Driver Booster, or just clicking 'Update' on Windows Update, I mean manually click update driver in devmgmt.msc. Try all drivers under 'System Devices'
     
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  3. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    I am not sure if you know this but the powercfg command has an option to show all of the hidden settings in a power profile.

    powercfg -qh >C:\power.txt

    The q option queries the current power profile and the h option includes the hidden entries which will get written out to a file called power.txt on your C drive. Just curious if you compared all of these hidden entries as well.

    The Intel® Rapid Storage Technology (Intel® RST) driver might have an option that disables C7. The purpose of this is to reduce latency so SSD benchmark numbers look better. This also might be part of the default Microsoft driver. My memory is very foggy so don't quote me on this. Your testing is very interesting and I am glad you posted a way to trick Windows into letting you access C7.

    @cj_miranda23 - Just curious. When you were having freeze problems when using Speed Shift, were you using EPP = 0 or did this happen when using any value for EPP? The purpose of Speed Shift is to get the processor to change speeds faster when coming off idle. It is possible that this could lead to more instability problems, especially when overclocking or under volting.

    I agree with @Falkentyne that when under volting, it is a good idea to use ThrottleStop to lock the CPU multiplier at 8 and do some full load testing at low speed as well as at high speed. Most people usually only test their voltage at full speed but many random freezes happen when the CPU is lightly loaded so it is a good idea to test both speeds. Maybe a future feature for TS would be a Vary Multi button so you could push this while running Prime95 and TS would rapidly and randomly vary the multiplier up and down while the CPU is loaded. This might be an interesting way to flush out less than 100% stable voltage settings.
     
  4. Che0063

    Che0063 Notebook Evangelist

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    I might stress that CPU C state remains at C7, however, Package C state remains stuck at C3. C8, 9, and 10 states are disabled by Acer


    It is interesting you should mention that command; I recognize it from the 'powercfg -?' command, but never bothered to use it. I did, however, go into the registry to Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\PowerSettings

    From there, I expanded every single folder with the GUID, and Changed the DWORD Key of Attributes from 1 (Hidden) to 2 (shown) like this in powercfg.PNG

    Changing the DWORD to 2 will allow you to change the values in advanced options in power plan settings in control panel


    Particularly interesting is how there is about fifty power settings that are hidden, only three are unhidden under the processor tab- Minimum Processor State, System Cooling Policy (Pah! Never does a thing) and Max Processor State.

    With the unlocked settings, I can change the aggressiveness of Turboboosting. Not sure about other components such as LSM or GPU settings.

    I have unlocked all these options, and compared them in Power Options. They are exactly the same - which leads me to believe that on my Skylake laptops some settings are obsolete and exist superfluously.



    Oh, and by the way, you mentioned before that changing the Minium Processor State under the high performance plan essentially turns the High Performance power plan to the Balanced power plan. That is not true for me

    When I have Min Proc State set to 0%, 5%, or even 50% the CPU still TurboBoosts at its maximum 3.0/3.1GHz

    I have to fiddle around with GUID

    54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00\12a0ab44-fe28-4fa9-b3bd-4b64f44960a6

    and


    54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00\12a0ab44-fe28-4fa9-b3bd-4b64f44960a7

    I believe those two are the main settings that determine the algorithm for selecting processor speed.


    But here's the main thing:

    Intel Speed Shift essentially ignores everything related to clock speeds. No matter what I do with the CPU settings SST takes over. I do, however, notice a change in C state.


    Anyway, have fun unlocking things in Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\PowerSettings



    And this is precisely why I keep throttlestop running under the Power Saver power profile. Balanced does the same thing, limiting the package to C3. I must have a look at other settings, such as Link State Management. I'm certain it has something to do with either power options or a driver.
     

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  5. Che0063

    Che0063 Notebook Evangelist

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    EDIT:

    Sorry, the following GUIDs may also have something to do with C states


    Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\PowerSettings\54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00\3b04d4fd-1cc7-4f23-ab1c-d1337819c4bb

    Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\PowerSettings\54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00\40fbefc7-2e9d-4d25-a185-0cfd8574bac7


    And the aggressivenesss of the power plan as a whole:
    Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\PowerSettings\245d8541-3943-4422-b025-13a784f679b7
    o s

    Ooh, and I'd also like to remind you to be careful not to ever close the Control Panel\System and Security\Power Options tab after you have selected any power plan other than Balanced. On Windows 10 Creators Update 1703/10563 Microsoft has simply decided that power plan isn't important anymore. They will disappear once you close the control panel window. If you want to enable any power plan other than Balanced after you close it, you'll have to irritate yourself by using the command line to re-enable the High Performance or Power Saver plan.


    I'm a Microsoft fanboy, so I'm in the WIndows Insider Fast Ring. And I'll list my knowledge of power management from Creators Update onwards:

    1. Power plans are being removed
    2. Power throttling is a thing, allegedly reducing PCU usage. This essentially throttles specific processes. I've never noticed any drop in power consumption regardless. None of my programs throttle anyway
    4. Microsoft is moving to a slider in the Battery flyout, which allows the user to select between batteyr saver, balanced, and high performance. According to Microsoft 'This will only be shown on select hardware on specific machines'. I bet it has something to do with Speed Shift. Regardless, this does nothing on my machine for the time being.


    I don't really agree with the steps Microsoft is taking. They want to hide EVERYTHING technical beneath the cushion, and have everything simple for the user. But I want to be able to see everything that goes on in my system, and I like to have control over Windows.
     
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  6. cj_miranda23

    cj_miranda23 Notebook Evangelist

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    I tried it for both EPP=0 and EPP 128 settings. The only difference is the time it took before the freezing happened. I think the 128 took longer.
     
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  7. Vasudev

    Vasudev Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    I used Winaero tweaker to add power options to context menu. So, 2 clicks will switch to Balanced, High performance and power saver.
     
  8. plee82

    plee82 Notebook Evangelist

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    Looks like I will be returning my laptop. Laptop shuts down at 47% battery, even in BIOS. Thinking about downgrading the CPU to 6700HQ but upgrading the GPU to a GTX 1070.
     
  9. Vasudev

    Vasudev Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Is it Alienware? The battery can't handle gpu at 100% load and if GPU temps are >75C, the battery simply gets too hot and shuts off. So on battery light load is recommended, i mean very light load that use intel gfx. @judal57 can confirm this.
     
  10. plee82

    plee82 Notebook Evangelist

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    MSI GT62VR kaby lake with gtx 1060. It even shuts down in the bios at 47%. GPU temp at idle 35C.
     
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