The ThrottleStop Guide

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by unclewebb, Nov 7, 2010.

  1. illuzn

    illuzn Notebook Consultant

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    As unclewebb mentioned, this is a false positive. I believe it has to do with the low level behaviours which Throttlestop has which presumably mimic the low level behaviours of true Trojans/ virii.

    If you want to keep your antivirus enabled:
    1. In the Cortana/ search box, launch "Windows Defender"
    2. History Tab
    3. All Detected Items -> View Details
    4. Select Throttlestop and select Allow Item.
    5. Quarantined Items -> View Details
    6. Select Throttlestop and select Restore
    7. Do not move throttlestop wherever it is kept. The exception is based upon location.
    Every few virus definition updates, windows defender pops a complaint again and you will need to go through the above procedure. Throttlestop is now being detected as "Trojan:Win32/Fethar.B!cl" since the 4 April 2016 virus definition updates.

    I get the same using High Performance mode... from a reported idle load of around 1-2W to around to around 4-5W because it runs at full turbo boost even under no load. I suspect that Intel speed step somehow gets disabled in high performance mode even though the "minimum processor state" is still 5% in the Power Plan.

    @unclewebb Is it unusual that my laptop does not use package C6 and C7 states in idle (it does use Core C6 and C7 states). Running an i7-6500U processor. My C7 state limit is "locked"

    Whoa... something strange just happened. After enabling high performance profile... it now seems to use package C6 and C7 states - might be a bug. Currently testing and will report back.

    Edit: Now I can't reproduce the previous behaviour - great. My laptop may have gotten into a bugged state. Now at idle the package is spending 30% in C7 state and power consumption is in the sub 1W category. I don't think I've ever seen power consumption this low before to be honest and I'm not sure what's happening - either that or it may be that when I've been watching this in the past background processes have been keeping the CPU busy.

    Edit 2: Okay, found it... there seems to be a bug with my computer where C6 and C7 states are disabled on AC power (which might be normal) but then when the power is disconnected those states remain disabled. Seems I need to reboot after disconnecting AC power.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2016
  2. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    @intruder16
    Code:
      Subgroup GUID: 48df9d60-4f68-11dc-8314-0800200c9a66  (Intel(R) Dynamic Platform and Thermal Framework Settings)
        Power Setting GUID: 07029cd8-4664-4698-95d8-43b2e9666596  (Config TDP Level)
          Possible Setting Index: 000
          Possible Setting Friendly Name: High TDP
          Possible Setting Index: 001
          Possible Setting Friendly Name: Nominal TDP
          Possible Setting Index: 002
          Possible Setting Friendly Name: Low TDP
        Current AC Power Setting Index: 0x00000000
        Current DC Power Setting Index: 0x00000000
    It looks like your laptop is set to High TDP mode (0) for both AC and DC power.

    Here is some System Agent info for Sandy Bridge.

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/3922/intels-sandy-bridge-architecture-exposed/4

    Do some Google searching if you need to know more. I am just the TS programmer. I don't know how this stuff works. :)

    I use a Non Turbo Ratio of 1 on my laptop. It is plugged in 99% of the time so this setting gets rid of all those intermediate multipliers and prevents multiplier throttling which the Y510P has as a feature. No need to use Set Multiplier so fixing the problem this way saves a few CPU cycles. To be honest, after setting NTR to 1, I could just turn ThrottleStop off. That solves my throttling problem.

    It would not be unusual if a different operating system requires slightly different offset voltage. There are so many variables that it is impossible to say what the actual cause is. If you are getting BSOD when idle then maybe Win 10 is using slightly different C States compared to Win 8.1.

    Software reported power consumption for Intel CPUs might not be accurate at all when the CPU is idle. This data is only meant to control the Turbo Boost feature so how accurate this data is when the CPU is idle is anyone's guess. I would trust core temperatures more than data from the power consumption sensor. Running the CPU fast when idle allows the CPU to spend more time in the deep C States. A fast CPU is really not as bad as some people think it is.

    Some computers will lock out some C States when on AC or battery power and sometimes they might not get enabled again when switching back and forth. Power and C State related bugs are common because not enough users have access to good quality tools like ThrottleStop which show you which C States are being used. My Asus board has nice adjustments in the bios for Package, C2, C3, C6, C7, C8 but no matter what I select, only Package C2 works. Everyone just assumes that this stuff works when often times, it might not work at all.

    @illuzn - Thanks for the "How To Keep Windows Defender Happy" tutorial.

    The Windows High Performance power plan has the Minimum and Maximum processor states both set to 100%. If these are not both 100% then someone has changed the plan so it really isn't a High Performance plan anymore.

    One item that can make a significant difference to C State residency time when idle is the Timer Resolution which is in the TS - Options window. A setting of 16 should give you 15.6 µs which will maximize C State residency time. When set like this in ThrottleStop, if you end up with a different Timer Resolution then you have some other program on your system that is changing this. A low setting of 1 µS might be good for smooth gaming.

    @Eason - PowerSaver was a feature developed during the Core 2 era. Make sure SpeedStep is enabled when using this. I do not use this feature. I just run my laptop fast so it can spend lots of idle time in C7.

    http://i.imgur.com/osgOOz7.png

    If a core is spending 99% of the time in C7 then it really doesn't matter too much whether software shows that it is running at 3.0 GHz or 0.8 GHz. The reality in this situation is that 99% of the time the CPU core is at 0 MHz and it is getting 0 volts. Whatever the core is doing the other 1% of the time becomes unimportant. To save power, work on increasing C State residency time.
     
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  3. andrer2926

    andrer2926 Notebook Enthusiast

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    hi!
    can you explain the powersaver c0% option on the Options menu? Mine is 35 what does it do?
     
  4. illuzn

    illuzn Notebook Consultant

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    @unclewebb Already had that set to 16 for the reasons you stated =)

    @andrer2926 Those C-states are core power states.
    C0 = Normal operation
    C1E = Halt. CPU clock partially halted except for interrupt (wake up) requests
    C3 = Deep Sleep. CPU clock completely halted (the CPU will not wake up till the next scheduled interrupt).
    C6 = Power off. The CPU state is stored to static RAM (which is separately powered) and the CPU is powered down to 0V.
    C7 = Extended Power off. I believe this only has a real benefit over C6 when all CPU threads are in the C7 state. When this occurs the static RAM is flushed (presumably to normal RAM) and the CPU package is powered down to 0V.

    You may notice that the percentages do not add up to 100%. I believe that is because there are actually other states which throttlestop cannot/ does not track e.g. the C1E state referred to above but there is also C2 and C4. Not sure if this is because those states are not tracked or if there would be a performance hit from doing so.

    Finally there are core c-states and package c-states. These affect individual cores/ the entire cpu package respective. Have a look at this guide from Anandtech.
     
  5. Dufus

    Dufus .

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    @illuzn
    C1E is a package state, C1 is a core state. CPU clock is halted and C1 is usually just a "hlt" opcode to the CPU. There's also mwait and legacy control. Halt states are usually initiated by the OS and can also be disabled by the OS if desired or 3rd party software can also initiate idle c-states. Use to use software initiated C-States when taking advantage of the IDA bug on the older Core2 CPU.

    Probably easier to use the term cache rather than static RAM. Note that an L3 cache flush in package state C7 will likely cause high latency when woken.
     
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  6. illuzn

    illuzn Notebook Consultant

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    @Dufus I'll defer to your expert knowledge - my comment was made based upon 2 hours of reading through this stuff trying to understand why my package wasn't dropping to C6 and C7 on Ac. Given the latency problems, I understand why now.
     
  7. ole!!!

    ole!!! Notebook Prophet

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    @unclewebb hey just a quick question in regards to throtlestop and UI. back in v5 or v6 we can left or right click to bring up the profile menu. but in v8.02 it has to be right click, anyway to input left click as well in newer version or an update of this?
     
  8. Forssberg

    Forssberg Notebook Enthusiast

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    I have beta 2 version.
    Trying to run it in Windows 10 as CPU often stucks at 0.78 Ghz.
    Whenever I try to run it I get message:

    "A referral was returned from the server"

    What is wrong with this app?
     
  9. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    @unityole - Are you talking about the System Tray menu popping up with a Left or a Right mouse click on the icon?

    @Forssberg - Have you downloaded ThrottleStop and unzipped the download onto your laptop or desktop computer? I have never seen that error message before. Are you accidentally trying to run it on a server and not on a local computer?

    It mostly works for most users and it usually solves the stuck at 0.78 GHz issue that many computers have. Post some more specific details about your system and maybe a screenshot of the error message. That quote you posted is nowhere to be found within ThrottleStop itself. Are you using Windows Defender or some other antivirus software. Maybe your system is protecting you or preventing you from using ThrottleStop.

    @andrer2926 - The C0% adjustment in the Options window refers to the PowerSaver feature. I am not a big fan of this feature since I think letting the CPU manage itself as it rapidly goes in and out of various C States is the best way to manage a modern CPU. That percent adjustment lets ThrottleStop decide when it should go into full speed mode and when it should go into low speed mode. The higher you set PowerSaver C0%, the harder your CPU will have to work before going up to full speed. The default setting of 35% was a random number I pulled out of my hat.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2016
    ole!!! likes this.
  10. illuzn

    illuzn Notebook Consultant

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    I'm just going to chime in and say... that is a pretty offensive thing to say to someone who has spent countless hours for free developing a wonderful piece of software that works for thousands of people.
     
    Papusan and ole!!! like this.
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