1. You may have noticed things look a little different around here - we've switched to a new platform (XenForo) and have some new forum styles and features. This how-to guide will help you find your way around. If you find anything that looks strange, post it in this thread.

The ThrottleStop Guide

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by unclewebb, Nov 7, 2010.

  1. tuηay

    tuηay o TuNaY o

    Reputations:
    490
    Messages:
    3,711
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Excuse me, but I've must ask one question. I've downloaded this, do allready have a BIOS that unlocks EIST. My CPU, as you can se in my signature now is running at 2.92 Mhz (11.00 x 266.0 MHz = 2926.4 MHz). However, I do wonder if I can actually get any higher then this? I can't go any higher then 11x, and I can't see FSB overclock option.
     
  2. miro_gt

    miro_gt Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    433
    Messages:
    1,705
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    56
    as per your suggestion I switched to profile 1 for Dual IDA and it seems to hit it everytime :D Therefore I moved my default profile to be number 2 (13x without IDA, as the CPU uses much lower VID).

    say I'm on any other profile than 1 and I have EIST checked, and Disable Turbo un-checked. Would that mean that the CPU will still use dual IDA or single IDA when it thinks it can? (I have dual IDA checked in Options)

    thank you for your wonderful work on this utility :D
     
  3. widezu69

    widezu69 Goodbye Alienware

    Reputations:
    3,063
    Messages:
    4,181
    Likes Received:
    142
    Trophy Points:
    131
    Any info on users with the 2920xm? Thinking of getting an R3 and sticking a 2920xm ES into it and trying.
     
  4. JohnnyFlash

    JohnnyFlash Notebook Virtuoso

    Reputations:
    372
    Messages:
    2,465
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    56
    Even the ES chips are $900 right now. It's going to be a couple months until that comes down much.
     
  5. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

    Reputations:
    5,133
    Messages:
    3,997
    Likes Received:
    223
    Trophy Points:
    131
    tuηay: You didn't mention what CPU model you have. Your motherboard might support SetFSB or SetPLL which will allow you to increase your bus speed and total MHz some more but without an Extreme processor, you can't increase the maximum multiplier.

    miro_gt: Thanks for letting me know about the Options not being saved correctly when using profile 2, 3 or 4. This bug has been mentioned a few times but I was never able to duplicate it until today. I have fixed that so I will try to release a ThrottleStop update this weekend.

    Dual IDA is only possible when EIST is disabled and not checked. If EIST is checked and Disable Turbo is not checked then only one core can use IDA mode at a time. It can rapidly switch back and forth between cores so either core can be using IDA mode but you won't have both cores using IDA mode for more than a few milliseconds. Intel designed a tiny amount of overlap into this where both cores can be in IDA mode at the same time. ThrottleStop takes advantage of that feature and by disabling EIST at just the right time, it's possible to lock both cores in IDA mode. :)

    widezu69: I haven't had any feedback yet from a 2920XM owner. In theory, ThrottleStop supports the 2920XM but what is going to be possible might depend on how the bios is written. It's very easy for laptop manufacturers to lock any of the new Sandy Bridge CPUs and if they do, there won't be any software that will be able to unlock them once you boot up into Windows. Overclocking will then be limited to the bios.
     
  6. miro_gt

    miro_gt Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    433
    Messages:
    1,705
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    56
    hehe, so that's why it needs to cycle the EIST - to catch the overlap :)
     
  7. tuηay

    tuηay o TuNaY o

    Reputations:
    490
    Messages:
    3,711
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    105
    unclewebb, I do have a T9600. I've had that in my signature but did remove it yesterday :D
     
  8. TANWare

    TANWare Just This Side of Senile, I think. Moderator

    Reputations:
    1,669
    Messages:
    6,162
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Just a heads up for others. I just went from a x9100 to q9200. I turned off TS before the change but when I rebooted I kept getting BSOD's. I had to delete the old ini file and replace it with the default one from the install to get it to log me in. I have it auto start at login that is but it kept crashing.
     
  9. miro_gt

    miro_gt Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    433
    Messages:
    1,705
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    56
    I found another thing worth looking at.

    What I'm trying to do is set my default profile to be 2, and when Dual IDA is needed then switch to profile 1.

    In this case, I set Default AC profile to be 2 in Options and ThrottleStop starts fine using profile 2 after reboot. Then I would switch to profile 1 to use Dual IDA, but after some random time ThrottleStop would automatically switch back to profile 2. This happens if I'm on profile 3 or 4 and it would go back to profile 2 after a while.

    when I un-check the AC default Profile option, the number 2 in the box stays grayed out, and whatever profile I click on remains unchanged. However, everytime I reboot the computer ThrottleStop automatically starts in Profile 1 (with not having a default profile preset), so I have to switch it to Profile 2 manually as I would like this to be my normal use profile.

    I guess ThrottleStop checks for the default profile (and switches to) many times after it is already started, and I though this should be checked only once at start up.
     
  10. ghostdunks

    ghostdunks Notebook Guru

    Reputations:
    18
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    15
    Hi unclewebb, thanks for your efforts in writing this tool, very much appreciated :) Got a few questions and hoping you could shed some light.

    I've got a m17x R2, and just installed a 920xm and wanted to take full advantage of the processor. Running both wprime(with 8 threads) and the inbuilt benchmarking tool in TS(ver 2.99.9)

    1) I can't see a difference between running TS in monitoring mode and "Turn On" mode. Not sure if this is a bug or I'm just not understanding what I'm doing. Basically the only settings I've made changes to is

    - TRL - Set all the cores active options to 25
    - TPL - Set TDP=90, TDC=75

    I then reboot, and run wprime, and I get the following results:
    wprime:32M ->11.342, 1024m ->366.008

    Then i start TS and it starts in "monitoring only" mode, and rerun wprime, and I get the following results: 32m -> 8.811, 1024M ->281.01. So it seems that its improved the performance already just by starting it up in monitoring mode. I run the internal TS benchmark, and get 32M->13.861, and 1024M->438.559. I can see the FID on all 8 threads going to 25 at same time. In summary:
    wprime: 32m->8.811, 1024m->281.01
    TS: 32M->13.861, 1024m->438.559

    To see if turning TS on makes any difference, I then click on the button in TS "Turn On", and rerun the tests.
    wprime: 32m->8.851, 1024m->282.921
    TS: 32M->13.938, 1024m->435.967

    Looking at the results, as soon as I start Ts up, it seems be active regardless of "monitoring only" or "Turn on". How do I turn it off? I played with the "Default profiles" option for AC Profile and Battery Profile and it doesn't seem to make any difference.

    2) How are the Default profiles settings supposed to work? I'm assuming that if I have Ac profile(or battery profile) set to a specific profile, and I have TS starting up automatically on reboot, that it will start up automatically in that profile?

    3) Question on the 920xm chip and how it works. to my limited understanding, the extreme chips have the ability to run on full turbo speed on all 4 cores at same time as opposed to the other normal chips, where it will only run at full turbo on one core. Now, is this ability unlocked by default, or do I need to run TS to unlock this ability? I know I have to use TS to change the TDP/TDC values but wasn't sure about that ability to run at full turbo on all cores at same time.

    4) I've seen some references on some other threads which refer to a UNLK button. I can't see this button, I'm assuming this has been renamed to the "TRL" button?

    5) I haven't ticked the "Set Multiplier" button...do I need to consider this at all?

    Sorry for all the questions, its kinda hard to try and figure out whats going on when I can't seem to run TS in monitoring mode so I can see the FIDs for all cores.
     
  11. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

    Reputations:
    5,133
    Messages:
    3,997
    Likes Received:
    223
    Trophy Points:
    131
    On the 920XM and 940XM, the turbo ratio limits and turbo power limits are written by ThrottleStop directly to the CPU so after you exit ThrottleStop, those values remain in the CPU until the next reboot. Different motherboards and different bios versions use different default values for the same CPU. If you want to find out what the default values are for your CPU you would have to delete the ThrottleStop.INI configuration file, reboot your computer and then when you first run ThrottleStop, it will be set to your laptops default TRL and TPL values. You would have to copy those down and perhaps create a Default profile so you could switch to these default settings before exiting or before testing.

    2) Yes, that's how it is supposed to work. miro_gt mentioned that something is causing his laptop to change profiles during normal use so I'm going to have a look at that today and try to make sure that the default profiles are only used when ThrottleStop starts up or when ThrottleStop detects a switch from AC to DC or from DC to AC so a user can manually over ride these when they need to without ThrottleStop trying to help them out and switch back to a default profile.

    3) I'm pretty sure that the M17x-R2 unlocks this feature by default with the latest bios but the M15x and most other laptops that use the XM processors set these to the Intel default values. The Intel specified default turbo multipliers for a 920XM are 24, 23, 17, 17 when 1, 2, 3 or 4 cores are in the active state. For the M17x-R2, I believe that Dell has set these to 24, 24, 24, 24 and for the 940XM they use 25, 25, 25, 25. I think only one bios was released for this model that set them at the true Intel default values. Users complained so Dell quickly went back to using the Dell specific overclocked default settings. Manufacturers that randomly do stuff like this is one reason why I don't try to manage default settings for a user.

    4) The UNLK (unlock) button is for the Core 2 based Extreme processors so that won't show up if you have one of the newer Core i7 Extreme processor. In the old days, life was simple and you just had to unlock the maximum multiplier and then increase it. With Core i7 this is controlled by increasing the turbo ratio limit multipliers as well as increasing the turbo TDP/TDC values. This is much more powerful but a lot more complex.

    5) For your CPU, I think clicking the Set Multiplier button is optional. If you use this, set it to the highest value which should show Turbo. It would be a good idea to go into the M17x-R2 forums and ask more model specific questions like that.

    I'll have a look at this. In general ThrottleStop should start up in the previous profile that you used but you can over ride that by using the default AC or DC profiles. If you do a reboot and ThrottleStop is not shut down then it is likely that it did not have a chance to save the last used profile. If you exit ThrottleStop before rebooting then the last used profile should be saved. I'll consider changing this so every time you change profiles, your current profile is immediately written to the INI file.
     
  12. ghostdunks

    ghostdunks Notebook Guru

    Reputations:
    18
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    15
    Thanks for the answers and for chirping in on my other thread in the m17x-r2 forums too :)

    Its starting to make a lot more sense now. As suggested, I deleted the ini file, rebooted and got my default TRL and TPL values, which ended up being TRLs of 24, and TPL of 62/62 and saved it in a "default" profile. After playing around with it some more, got some more comments:

    1) as per my previous post, there still doesn't seem to be any difference between "monitoring-only" mode and "turning it on" via the "turn on" button. Running tests in both modes deliver the same results. Seems that the moment that TS starts, it starts writing the TRL and TPL numbers to the CPU, which is kinda counter-intuitive to a "monitoring-only" mode, which suggests just read-only and no writing to the cPU until the "turn on" button is clicked. Again, not sure if this is a bug or a "feature"

    2) Trying to save different TRL limits for different profiles, something I can't seem to do. I can save different TPL numbers for different profiles, but the TRL numbers seem to be shared across all the profiles.

    My proposed setup would be:
    Profile 1: Performance
    TRL: 25 across all cores
    TPL: 90 TDP/ 75 TDC

    Profile 2: Default
    TRL: 24 across all cores(or possibly the intel defaults of 24,23,17,17)
    TPL: 62 TDP/ 62 TDC
     
  13. widezu69

    widezu69 Goodbye Alienware

    Reputations:
    3,063
    Messages:
    4,181
    Likes Received:
    142
    Trophy Points:
    131
    I don't know if unclewebb has added different turbo ratios per profile yet. As far as I know you can only have different power. I asked for this a while ago and he said he was adding it later. Looking forward to it :)
     
  14. TANWare

    TANWare Just This Side of Senile, I think. Moderator

    Reputations:
    1,669
    Messages:
    6,162
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    231
    I wouldn't want to run prime95 on my q9200 for an extended period of time but all normal stuff is fine. Dirt2 never over 82c a core. Did a batch picture coversion (my heaviest multithread task, 136 pictures = 658 seconds) never over 93c a core that I could see................
     

    Attached Files:

  15. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

    Reputations:
    5,133
    Messages:
    3,997
    Likes Received:
    223
    Trophy Points:
    131
    The TS On/Off feature only controls the Clock Modulation and Set Multiplier features. TRL and TPL work independently from that so what you set is what you get whether you're in Monitoring mode or not. Maybe in the future I'll consider letting users select a default TPL setting for when ThrottleStop is in monitoring mode.

    There have also been a few requests for being able to adjust the Turbo Ratio Limits independently for each profile. At the moment, the TRL are the same for all profiles. It's another feature on the things to do list.

    If you want a more energy efficient profile with lower maximum multipliers then just use some low TDP/TDC values and this will automatically limit your maximum full load multiplier. Maybe you could drop TDP/TDC down to 10/30 and convert your XM rocket into a low power UM CPU when on battery power. :)
     
  16. ghostdunks

    ghostdunks Notebook Guru

    Reputations:
    18
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    15
    ah ok, that explains it then. Didn't realise that was what the "TS On/Off" feature worked. Not sure if I missed it in the guide, but think that would be useful if that was clarified somewhere in the documentation as the functionality is kinda ambiguous at the moment.

    Hehe...not much point in converting the XM rocket into a low power version when its mainly the 2 graphics cards which are probably drawing all the juice! :)

    thanks again for writing this program, it really shines to really make my processor work its off!
     
  17. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

    Reputations:
    5,133
    Messages:
    3,997
    Likes Received:
    223
    Trophy Points:
    131
    [​IMG]

    - Fixed the Options not being saved when in profile 2, 3 or 4.
    - Fixed the BD PROCHOT reporting.
    - Fixed AC/DC default profile switching when the battery is rapidly discharging.
    - Changed it so clock modulation and chipset clock modulation will not automatically be turned off when ThrottleStop first starts so you can monitor for this problem before making any changes.
    - Documented about a dozen rarely used INI file options.
    - Added a SplitQuad= INI option for the Core 2 Quad CPUs. See the included docs for more info.
     
  18. TANWare

    TANWare Just This Side of Senile, I think. Moderator

    Reputations:
    1,669
    Messages:
    6,162
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    231
    with the split quad, you write the values to the ini file but when you set bac all to full speed it does not write back as "1" it stays at 3 so on next boot you end up not running full speed but at the split value = 3
     
  19. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

    Reputations:
    5,133
    Messages:
    3,997
    Likes Received:
    223
    Trophy Points:
    131
    I switched that since the testing version I sent you so SplitQuad=3 should have both CPUs of a Core 2 Quad at full speed. I'll check that in a little bit to make sure. SplitQuad=1 should run CPU1 at full speed with the other half of a Quad at low speed while SplitQuad=2 should have CPU2 at full speed with CPU1 running at the minimum 6 multiplier. I thought that made more logical sense than how I had it in the testing version.
     
  20. TANWare

    TANWare Just This Side of Senile, I think. Moderator

    Reputations:
    1,669
    Messages:
    6,162
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    231
    ok will try again......

    Edit; ok that seems to get me there................... :)

    Edit 2; actually looking at it from programing side your first methodology to me made alot of sence as 1 was normal mode 2 and 3 were enhanced modes or deenhanced modes, according to how you look at it.
     

Share This Page