The ThrottleStop Guide

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by unclewebb, Nov 7, 2010.

  1. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    Good news. I was not sure if ThrottleStop was going to work correctly on Intel's new 12th Gen desktop CPUs. Surprisingly, ThrottleStop 9.4.2 starts up and it looks like a lot of things actually work.

    The monitoring results look correct. It shows the P cores of this 12600K are all running steady at the 50 multiplier and the E cores are all running with the 40 multiplier.

    Thanks to GerKNG on TechPowerUp for doing some testing for me. :vbthumbsup:

    upload_2021-11-11_11-10-3.png
     
  2. Webbmaster

    Webbmaster Notebook Geek

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    Got some questions - sorry :) if I am repeating but didn't find anything yet:

    As the Author let me know pls- what is proper with TURN ON or TURN OFF to keep -(on main windows program screen ) - green or red in taskbar after it for your program?!

    and in FIVR page - for Cache needs to be increased IccMax? You told me for CPU - yes to the Max.

    and from screenshot some numbered:

    1. after running some test - thermal sometimes Red,
    VR current exists in core
    EDP other exists in core and in ring

    anything needs to do with it?
    2. in TPL page - is it ok or increase anything?

    3. by default - it is Disable control for 11800H
    anything needs to do with it?

    4. If on main screen SpeedShift I read you advice to check in, but here in TPL it is not?!

    5. in TS Bench window-this numbers - higher is better or what is the difference? meaning?
     

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  3. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    Turn On / Turn Off controls the Clock Mod feature and the Set Multiplier feature. Most recent computers do not use Clock Mod throttling and the Set Multiplier feature is not available if Speed Shift is enabled. That means Turn On and Turn Off does not matter.

    Your screenshot shows that the maximum temperature of one of the cores reached 100°C. THERMAL in red means your CPU is thermal throttling. It is forced to slow down to protect against any long term damage.

    That means your voltage regulators are having a problem delivering enough current to your CPU. When this is red, the CPU is forced to slow down. Intel says the 11800H is a 45W processor. Your are trying to run it at 90W. Guess what? It looks like the manufacturer never planned for someone running their CPU at 100% more power consumption compared to the Intel rated TDP.

    https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...1800h-processor-24m-cache-up-to-4-60-ghz.html

    You cannot easily replace the voltage regulators on the motherboard. The only way to avoid VR Current throttling is to avoid stress testing your computer at 90W. It was not designed for this kind of use.

    EDP stands for Electrical Design Point. To try to fix this type of throttling, set IccMax for the core and the cache to the maximum, 255.75 and in the TPL window set Power Limit 4 to 0 or try setting Power Limit 4 to the maximum, 1023. This might not solve your EDP throttling problem. Your laptop was only designed to handle so much abuse. Running a 45W CPU at 90W and 100°C is more performance than your computer was designed to deliver.

    My advice for Speed Shift is the opposite of what you read. I recommend checking the Speed Shift box in the TPL window.

    On the main screen, you only need to check the Speed Shift EPP box if Windows cannot manage EPP. On most recent computers, Windows 10 or Windows 11 can manage Speed Shift EPP. If Windows can manage Speed Shift EPP, you do not need to check the Speed Shift EPP box in ThrottleStop.

    To test this, clear the Speed Shift EPP box. Open the FIVR window and have a look at the monitoring table. What Speed Shift EPP value is the CPU using? When you change from the Windows High Performance power plan to the Windows Balanced power plan, you should see the Speed Shift EPP value in the FIVR monitoring table change. Does this happen on your computer? When you change back to the Windows High Performance power plan does the EPP value change back to 0? It should. This test will confirm if Windows is capable of managing the EPP variable.

    The value at the top of the TS Bench screen is like a stop watch. It is showing you how many seconds it takes to complete a test. If you are at the drag strip and it takes 15 seconds for a car to travel a quarter of a mile and the next car goes the same distance in only 10 seconds then it is pretty obvious that the 10 second car is a much faster car compared to the 15 second car. The less time it takes to complete a task the better.

    Your computer has 8 cores and 16 threads. When the TS Bench is set to 16 threads, the problem it is trying to calculate is broken up into 16 equal sized chunks. This is usually the most efficient way to calculate this problem on an 8 core / 16 thread CPU. If you break the same problem up into 20 threads but your CPU can only process 16 threads at a time, this is not as efficient. The operating system has to swap 20 tasks into and out of the CPU when there are only 16 threads available.

    Your TS Bench results confirm that breaking a problem up into too many little pieces is not a good idea. There is more overhead swapping tasks and threads. When set to 20 Threads, the benchmark takes longer to complete. Your results show that the amount of time it takes to complete the calculation has increased. More time to complete a task is just as bad as a car at the drag strip that takes more time to drive down the track.

    I do not like to see a green or red T in the system tray. In the Options window, I turn Notification Area Icon off.

    I like looking at the CPU temperature and CPU power consumption. That is useful information.

    upload_2021-11-13_10-4-48.png
     
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  4. Webbmaster

    Webbmaster Notebook Geek

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    Thank you very much!!!
    Tried to do all steps-in TPL windows checked SpeedShift
    Looks like with Powerlimit 1023 - 1023 EDP is gone.
    ok
    And I think questions in yellow - nothing to change for OC there?

    PS. Changing Cache ratio is useless for this 11800H CPU in FIVR section?

    upload_2021-11-14_0-15-26.png
     
  5. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    upload_2021-11-14_10-45-36.png

    It is Sunday so I feel like a football coach drawing up a play. :D

    The Turbo Power Limits section at the top is constantly monitoring what the MSR PL1 and PL2 power limits are currently set to. It also reports what the MMIO PL1 and PL2 power limits are currently set to. ThrottleStop will immediately show if any software on your computer has changed either of these power limits.

    Your screenshot shows that the MSR power limit register is set to 200W for both PL1 and PL2 and the time limit is set to 56 seconds. The Power Limit Control section allows you to send different power limit values to the MSR power limit register. There are two reasons why a user might need to do this.

    Reason #1 - If the BIOS does not let you set custom MSR power limits then you can use ThrottleStop to do this.

    Reason #2 - If Windows or some software on your computer is randomly changing the MSR power limit register, you can use ThrottleStop to monitor and automatically correct any changes.

    If you have either of these problems, clear the Disable Control check box. When this box is clear, ThrottleStop will send the power values in the Power Limit Control box to the CPU MSR power limit register. It will also constantly check and maintain these power limit values. If some bad software lowers your MSR power limit to the 45W TDP, ThrottleStop will quickly detect this problem and change the MSR power limit register back to 200W like you have requested.

    When the Disable Control box is checked, ThrottleStop will ignore any changes to the MSR power limit register. Checking that box is telling ThrottleStop that you do not need ThrottleStop to manage this register. I have the Disable Control box checked on my desktop computer. I have set the power limits in the BIOS and there are no issues with these limits ever randomly changing.

    If you can set both power limits in the BIOS to 200W and you do not have any software on your computer running amok and randomly setting these power limits to something else, then you do not need ThrottleStop to constantly monitor and change the power limit register. For you, checking Disable Control is best. It tells ThrottleStop not to waste its time and not to waste any CPU cycles checking a register that never changes. I like adding features like this to ThrottleStop so it is as efficient as possible. You can turn off features that you do not need. There is a reason why ThrottleStop uses 1/10th the CPU and memory resources compared to Intel XTU.

    The MMIO power limits are a secondary set of turbo power limits. The CPU constantly compares the MSR and MMIO power limits and uses the lowest power limit value it finds. Your screenshot shows MSR PL1 is set to 200W but the MMIO PL1 is only set to 92W. That means your CPU will start to throttle at 92W. If you want your CPU to throttle at 92W, set the MSR PL1 power limit in the BIOS to 92W. Setting MSR PL1 to 200W does not accomplish anything if the MMIO PL1 is set to 92W.

    In the name of efficiency, I prefer to check the MMIO Lock box. That does two things. It eliminates the 92W power limit and it locks the MMIO power limit register so no other software on your computer can make any changes to it. On many recent laptops, the MMIO power limit is more likely to be randomly changed. When the MMIO register is locked, ThrottleStop does not have to waste its time monitoring and adjusting this register. I highly recommend checking this box. No CPU needs two separate sets of power limits. When the MMIO power limits are locked out, the MSR power limits will still work just fine. The MSR power limits are enough to control the CPU.

    upload_2021-11-14_11-44-32.png

    At the bottom of your screen, the PP0 Power Limit is not checked so neither it nor the PP0 Turbo Time Limit are being used. Leave this as is and leave the time limit at its default value, 0.0010 seconds. My 10th Gen desktop does not use this power limit and I doubt an 11th Gen mobile CPU uses this either.

    There is no reason to check anything in ThrottleStop if it is not being used or not causing a problem. ThrottleStop is a generic tool. Only use what you need.
     
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  6. Webbmaster

    Webbmaster Notebook Geek

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    Wow - that`s a real manual and education stream-writing lesson! Thanks a lot.

    I did recommendation LOCK MMIO - so now it looks like this:
    And now CPU will have instead of 92W->200W limits - which could be slightly better? (Keeping in mind limited cooling with this CPU anyway?)


    PS. and about changing Cache ratio is useless for this 11800H CPU in FIVR section?
    PS2. I have desktop with i9-10900K - and it setup and OC in BIOS as Fixed voltage. Is there any sense to try use over it plus Throttlestop and higher layer to OC? Offset wouldn't work with BIOS fixed?


    upload_2021-11-15_0-13-23.png
     
  7. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    The 200W PL1 power limit looks good. No chance an 11800H will ever be able to maintain this much power consumption without overheating or in your laptop, triggering VR CURRENT throttling to glow red.

    An H CPU is not a fully unlocked K series CPU. You should be able to use ThrottleStop to lower the cache ratio but you probably cannot use ThrottleStop to overclock the cache ratio. I know the 11800H is partially unlocked. You can go +400 MHz on the core. Maybe you can also overclock the cache some when you are overclocking the core. Not sure. Do some testing to find out what is possible.

    I have a very similar 10850K. In the Asus bios, I enabled SVID support. This allows ThrottleStop to control the voltage based on the VID of the processor. I found that the VID voltage table set by Intel for this processor closely tracks the voltage that the processor needs. That makes it easy to dial in an offset voltage that works well at many different CPU speeds.

    If you have locked your 10900K to a single speed and you are happy with this then it is OK to lock the CPU voltage in the bios. On a desktop board, when you are running a fixed voltage, the VID voltage is usually ignored. That means trying to do an offset voltage when the board is set to a fixed voltage is probably not going to work.

    It should be easy to test this. Run a consistent stress test like the TS Bench or Cinebench and play around with the offset voltage sliders while the CPU is loaded. If your computer crashes then I guess that proves that the offset voltage slider must be working. You can also watch CPU temperature and power consumption for any changes.

    What voltage and speed are you running your 10900K at? My 10850K has been an enjoyable CPU. After you add lots of voltage, it competes well with most 10900K.

    https://valid.x86.fr/yu1kle

    Don't believe the MHz. I was playing around with ThrottleStop to see if I could trick the CPU-Z validation algorithm. I succeeded. :)

    Those scores are very competitive with most 10900K. It was a great CPU until the 12900K arrived. Now 10th Gen single core scores look kind of pathetic in the CPU-Z benchmark test compared to the beast that Intel just released.
     
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  8. amihail91

    amihail91 Notebook Evangelist

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    I noticed today my Throttlestop (9.4.2 beta) isn't showing entering any C States below 1 (shows 0 for all values) even tho limit is set to C10 - is there some option I have set somewhere wrong that would be causing this?
     
  9. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    Did you ever use ThrottleStop to disable your C states?

    Check the C States - AC box, select the On radio button and press Apply and see if that gets your C states working.

    upload_2021-11-15_10-53-35.png

    If you are still having problems, do you remember installing any recent BIOS updates?

    Open Power Options and try pressing the Restore plan defaults button.

    upload_2021-11-15_10-56-30.png

    There are 101 things that can interfere with the C states working correctly. Some manufacturers release updates that deliberately disable the C states. If you do not know when they stopped working, it is difficult to troubleshoot what might have changed.
     
  10. Webbmaster

    Webbmaster Notebook Geek

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    Thank you about desktop - will look it trough, but your is faster!?!?
    My silicon voltage is 1.35V and under load falls till 1.29V something (have LLC - Turbo to keep it not lower) and if lower is freezing with OC CPU 51x. ( I think my mb Gigabyte meeh and slow DRAM are involved.)

    Now my task to make the most slow profile ;) for laptop: I have one as MAX OC and one even powering a laptop from electricity I tried to make it slower - so chose Battery mode and Turbo ratio limits pull till down possible 23?!
    Get Speedshift EPP till 153. Cache ratio 8 now - getting CPU frequency 0,8-1,2 GHz and under some CPU load - trying to keep lower Temperatures and less impactful on GPU under load and fan runs slower!
    Surprised that still get quite high CPU temperature around 55-57C with 3% utilization from Windows Task Manager (49-51C during the rest if I am not wrong), and in OC Performance mode under same load - 60-63 and it already affects -> +GPU temp -> +Fans... At least tuned fans and temp - after this downgrade speed are bearable.

    (on screenshot to look and compare - GPU is under heavy load and FAN RPM for big 17 laptop chassis tuned down but still CPU could he colder!?).
    upload_2021-11-15_15-32-34.png
     
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