The ThrottleStop Guide

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by unclewebb, Nov 7, 2010.

  1. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    ThrottleStop 9.2.9.5
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oW32KemxX6Ko8aNKUyY9KUa_YG9FtGwr/view?usp=sharing

    New Features
    - added reporting and control of Thermal Velocity Boost and V-Max Stress.
    - added TVB and VMAX to the log file.
    - fixed log file data writing so log file data gets written to the correct day.
    - added a long term TS Bench test and updated the TSB user interface.

    @4W4K3 - When programming, I just sit down and start writing code off the top of my head. I quickly lose track of what I have written let alone when I wrote it. It is all kind of a blur.

    I remember finding some power limit that looked unnecessary so I think I added some code to the Lock & Disable function to take care of this problem. If anyone checks that box, I assume that less throttling will make them happy. Whatever I did might have changed when the power limits get tripped. It could be that or a GPU driver change or who knows. You could clear the Disable & Lock option, reboot, and do some more testing but why bother. If your computer runs better, be happy and leave it at that.

    Edit - I had a look at your attachments. That looks like my programming planning book. :D
    When my brain gets overloaded, I download some random thoughts onto what ever piece of paper is close by. This becomes a pile that I can go back in time with. My search feature is not that efficient. The good old paper and pen days. Maybe I should learn how to use a computer!
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2021
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  2. Griffin3567

    Griffin3567 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Hey, not sure if this has been confirmed here yet but I've just heard from intel support that the 11th gen processors are not affected by SA 00289 yet FIVR is still not available in TS. Do we think they have just disabled it across the board then regardless?
     
  3. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    The 11th Gen U and G series that I have seen no longer allow software voltage control. This feature is not available. The voltage control register still exists but software cannot read or write voltage information to or from this register. Intel's fix is like cutting off a patient's arm because he has a problem with his fingernail.

    I personally think this feature will magically return when the higher cost unlocked K series are released. The mobile H series could be included too. Intel's plan might be to set up a website where you can go to have this feature unlocked. Remember to have your credit card / PayPal info handy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2021
  4. Griffin3567

    Griffin3567 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Hmm so looks like their idea of "not affected by it" does just mean, they have disabled the feature that would allow it to be exploited rather than any other person's understanding of "not affected by it" meaning it's been fixed. That's a shame as many people with the "cheaper" ones like in laptops would need it to keep the temps down. Should really leave it up to the user tbh if they want to take that "risk"
     
  5. Tinynja

    Tinynja Newbie

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    Hey hey it's me again! First of all I wish you all a happy new year! With the recent vacations I had some free time to mess around a little more with my Dell 5290.

    After some digging, I figured that the settings at the top of the TPL window were actually modifying the MSR_PKG_POWER_LIMIT register. I would now really like to know a little more about the other two unique sets of turbo power limits. Could you please give me a little more detail on this matter? Or could you please give me some hints as to where I should look to find more information on this?

    Thanks a lot!
     
  6. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    I have already told you what is important. I cannot give all of my secrets away. Dell uses the EC to enforce the TDP limit. Long term, this tells the CPU not to exceed whatever the rated TDP is. There is no easy way to fix this type of power limit throttling. Many Dell laptops do this type of throttling while many laptops from Dell's competition do not do this. If this is a problem, you need to shop elsewhere next time.
     
  7. Rohan2

    Rohan2 Newbie

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    Greetings, is this the right place to ask for help with what seems to be a CPU throttling problem? I've engaged Lenovo Premier Support but so far they have been unable to help me.


    Problem Description

    I have a Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Yoga 4th generation laptop. The CPU is an i7-10510U, integrated graphics only. Over recent weeks I've been seeing some extreme throttling, lasting what feels like about around 5 to 10 seconds, where the CPU speed is reported as 398.94 Mhz and the PC struggles to even draw the mouse cursor as I move it across the screen. During these episodes I see this:

    I can't find the image upload button, so I uploaded it here:
    https://www.mediafire.com/view/cj7r1fj1jzjrley/lenovo_throttle_2021-01-08.png/file

    FID column is all 4.00, PL1 is showing red in both the Core and the GPU columns in the Limit Reasons window. Temp is 63degC. PKG power 4.9W


    Background Info

    I've examined Task Manager and there does not seem to be any processes maxing out the CPU during these episodes, so I started monitoring it with HWMonitor, and then more recently I switched to monitoring it with ThrottleStop. This Windows PC also has a Linux VM guest running under Virtualbox. These low performance episodes seem to frequently occur during periods of low stress, like light web browsing.

    Since I switched to Windows 10 version 2004, I seem to have lost the ability to modify CPU performance settings under Control Panel, Power Options, Edit Plan Settings, Change Advanced power settings. At the moment I'm on the Balanced power plan. Now when I click on the Power icon in the system tray, it seems to be inconsistent about offering me a slider where I can choose "Best performance", but I always leave it on "Best performance" when I'm plugged in to AC power.


    ThrottleStop Measurements

    I took some ThrotteStop logs this morning and stopped them a few minutes after one of these episodes ended. I think it must have been at 11:21am:
    https://www.mediafire.com/file/22duya2grrfhzcy/2021-01-08_evidence.txt/file

    This happens frequently throughout the day. Most of the day the laptop is docked in a Lenovo Ultra dock, which has a 135W power brick. The laptop has its lid closed as I use two external monitors (4K, 1080) instead. The ambient temperature in my office right now is 28 deg C. Turning my room aircon seems like it may make it happen less often.


    My Question

    Seeing as the CPU temp is only 63 degrees during these episodes, I'm wondering if Lenovo have just misconfigured the thermal management. I should like my laptop to get a lot hotter, and run the fans faster and louder before it inflicts me with such bad performance. Can I do anything to fix it?
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2021
  8. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    @Rohan2, Are you running any Lenovo control software on your computer? Anything that controls fan speed or anything like that. Some manufacturer's software like this is extremely buggy. Try uninstalling any Lenovo software that might be related to this.

    Someone at Lenovo screwed up. The long term turbo power limit is being set, likely to 0 Watts. This causes constant power limit throttling.

    Start by scrolling up to the top of this page and grab the latest version of ThrottleStop.

    The 10510U has a 15W TDP rating but it can perform much, much better when this is increased. In the ThrottleStop TPL window, I would set the long term turbo power limit to 40W or maybe 45W and the short term limit to 50W. The CPU can handle this. Your cooling system is tapped out at 50W. You can go more conservatively if you want. Clear the Clamp boxes and check the Lock option in this section. You want to lock the power limit register so Lenovo cannot screw around with it. You should also check the FIVR Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits option. Run another log file and see if this problem is still happening.

    I used to have good luck with Lenovo. Sure they came up with some ridiculous throttling schemes but they were always nice enough to leave them unlocked so it was easy to overcome these limitations. Hopefully you have some luck sorting this out. Post some more screenshots of the FIVR and TPL windows.

    www.imgur.com is not a bad site for hosting images. I do not think you need an account there. You can upload as a guest.
     
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  9. Rohan2

    Rohan2 Newbie

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    Hi @unclewebb, no, I'm not intentionally running any Lenovo fan/thermal/power control software. When I look in the list of installed apps, there isn't anything that matches that description. This is however, using Lenovo's original system image, so there may well be some drivers I don't know about. The Lenovo tech made sure everything they thought was relevant was up-to-date.

    I do have Lenovo Vantage installed, which does the automatic driver updates. In that app there is a "My Device Settings" area and there is a section called "Power Smart settings". Under that heading is "Intelligent Cooling" but there a no settings to adjust in there at all. Not even an off switch. Perhaps it's just window-dressing. I'll show you a screenshot, because it just directs the user to look at the WIndows battery-icon:
    https://www.mediafire.com/file/n8desvckaqcy54a/lenovo_vantage_intelligent_cooling.png/file
    Interestingly, right at the moment, clicking on the suggested icon does nothing at the moment. I suspect that will change after a reboot.

    Here's what the TPL window shows, before I attempt any changes:
    https://www.mediafire.com/file/jdu5rc1whc30k28/ThrottleStop_yqCBbboELy.png/file

    Here's the FIVR window before I attempt any changes:
    https://www.mediafire.com/file/ewx3e98mi1j3z7k/ThrottleStop_fivr_initial.png/file

    At the moment in the TPL I'm seeing 51 in the top right hand corner and 51 beneath it, i.e. "Turbo Boost Long power Max" and "Turbo Boost short power max". On your advice I've changed them to 40 and 50 respectively. Is that what you were referring to?

    I'll give your other recommended changes a go as well and let you know if it helps.

    I've also uninstalled Lenovo Vantage for now, as well as Lenovo Vantage Service using the Uninstall apps part of Windows control panel. I also did this, "From Device Manager, expand the System devices category. Right-click System Interface Foundation V2 Device, and then choose Uninstall."

    I thought it was interesting that TS has SpeedStep ticked, but not "Speed Shift - EPP" as I had heard that the latter was the more modern technology. Is that worth experimenting with?
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2021
  10. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    Whenever a manufacturer comes up with a feature and names it "Intelligent Cooling", that automatically translates in my mind to unintelligent throttling. I avoid any manufacturer's software.

    Windows is capable of managing Speed Shift values on most modern laptops. If Windows can handle the Speed Shift EPP value, there is no need to also check the Speed Shift EPP setting in ThrottleStop. You do not want two different programs writing different data to the same CPU register. Open the FIVR window. It will show you what EPP value the CPU is using in the monitoring table. Move the Windows power slider in the system tray back and forth and you can watch to see how EPP changes. That test will confirm if Windows is aware of Speed Shift EPP.

    Yes. Those are your turbo power limits. Somewhere around 40W or 45W or 50W for the long term and 50W for the short term. If you want less heat and less performance, you can lower these to whatever you like.

    Checking the FIVR Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box is the most important thing to try. Post another log file after you do that. Also remember to set the Lock option on the turbo power limits register. This is the box closest to where you set your turbo power limits.

    [​IMG]

    To summarize, your data and screenshots show that your computer is screwed up. It is setting one or both of the turbo power limits to 0. This results in extreme power limit throttling down to a hair under 400 MHz. Kind of pathetic in 2021 for CPUs to be running at that speed. Hopefully you can solve this problem with ThrottleStop.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2021
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