The ThrottleStop Guide

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by unclewebb, Nov 7, 2010.

  1. Papusan

    Papusan Jokebook's Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on Filthy

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  2. koopa

    koopa Notebook Enthusiast

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    Hey UncleWebb, thanks so much for Throttlestop, it just keeps on giving, I've gotten my Lenovo Yoga X1 Gen2 7600u to:
    Cache: -90mv, Core: -170mv, SA: -40mv, GPU: -90mv, 21W / 86deg max using TSBench, or 25W / 97deg max using powerMAX (AVX). Didn't realise the iGPU was so thirsty, because it easily consumes 15W and causes my system to downclock.
    (so contrary to what I read, liquid metal thermal paste and undervolting GPU really helped my system, as did the 85deg limit being lifted by TS). It is now at 986 in Cinebench R20 (stock is 600). Also, TS-Bench's ability to randomly fluctuate frequency was SO useful, great feature. I'm still stuck at 25W combined CPU/iGPU with EDP other / PL 2, so if you can think how to get past that I'd be all ears (yes I've tried locking 35W /255 values into TPL)

    So, in my days of doing this, although I've read you want a programming break, I thought I'd add things that might be 'fun' or useful to put into V10.0 one day.

    1) Way back in the early 2000s, I used to set voltage points for each multiplier using CPU genie (tipsmake.com/optimize-laptop-battery-life). Is this still possible? As I can sustain a much lower cache voltage for max frequencies, but am limited by dodginess at lower frequencies.
    2) XTU allows overclock of the intel graphics card, is that possible in TS as I don't want to run both apps
    3) An AVX and/or GPU combined load tester to really stress test the thermals
    4) Being able to select "Ultimate Performance" as an option within TS
    5) Being able to remove 'clamps' and 'locks' for next boot, rather than having to delete the INI file.
    6) Being able to set "custom TDP", nothing to do with inbuilt Intel TDP, just recreated using testing and current / multiplier controls mapped to the profiles.

    Anyway man, fantastic work, will definitely send you some $$ if I could just find where to send it to!

    NB: Oh and bonus points for fan control, TPfan won't 'lock' or allow you to set custom fan ramps, but proves that the hooks are there, and it seems a natural fit to be built into TS. Ahh to have a completely silent laptop below 10W rather than a cycling fan.
     
  3. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    Great to hear that. I like dreaming up unique features for TS. Nice increase in your Cinebench R20 score with the help of ThrottleStop. Being able to change and lock the PROCHOT Offset temperature is another unique and extremely useful feature for many recent Lenovo laptops. I have had excellent long term reliability with the Lenovo laptops that I have purchased. Their engineers need a good kick in the backside for the throttling schemes that they have been adding to their recent laptops.

    1) setting individual voltage points became a lot less useful after the modern C states were developed. Best to run fast at minimum voltage and then quickly get back into core C7 at 0 volts and 0 MHz. A CPU should spend as little time as possible at the intermediate multipliers. With recent CPUs that use the FIVR, you only get to offset the entire voltage curve and that is it. No easy way to undervolt individual multipliers without a huge amount of overhead.

    2) I have never been able to solve the mystery of overclocking the Intel GPU. On my laptop, there is a hidden MSR register or hidden MMIO value that can limit the maximum multiplier. Intel XTU knows where this register is hiding but I have not been able to find it. The Intel GPU is not too important to me so I gave up looking for this secret. Too bad Intel likes playing games and is not willing to freely share all of their documentation with individual programmers like myself.

    3) There are enough AVX and GPU stress tests out there. The TS Bench is a useful test for non AVX workloads. No plans yet to add to this but who knows what the future holds. One interesting test would be to run a long 1 Thread TS Bench test with the random MHz option enabled. While this is running, start up one of the traditional stress tests. This would create a random MHz AVX test. That might be interesting. On a 4 core CPU, maybe 4 threads of Prime95 with AVX, 1 Thread of TS Bench and leave a few threads left over so they will be rapidly entering and exiting various C states. That might be a good real world load kind of simulation.

    4) You can use TS 9.2.2 to access the Windows Ultimate Performance power profile. You need to manually edit the ThrottleStop.INI configuration file at the moment but it is possible. Read the included ReadMe file in the latest download. I might add this feature to the TS user interface in the future to make it easier to access.

    5) I agree that removing the Lock option without needing to delete the INI file would be a great new feature. The laptop that I use for programming TS has the power limit register locked by the BIOS. That makes programming more difficult and is why I have avoided improving this. Maybe someday soon this limitation will be fixed.

    6) Custom TDP for each TS profile is also on the things to maybe do list. Same as above. Locked CPU register has discouraged me from working on this.

    Fan control would be a great feature to add to TS but it is beyond me at the moment. I think to properly develop something like this you would need access to a wide variety of hardware which I do not have.

    Thanks for the positive comments. Instead of sending money to feed me, I always encourage users to feed a homeless dude. They need to eat more than I do. I think the last person that did this told the person, complements of unclewebb. :)

    If your maximum turbo power limit is being set internally by the EC, there is no simple way to get beyond this limit.
     
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  4. Avé César

    Avé César Notebook Consultant

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    https://twitter.com/jor_nicole4/status/1078781094579716096
     
  5. Jdpurvis

    Jdpurvis Notebook Evangelist

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    This is normal behavior (higher clock speed at idle). For example, if SpeedShift is set to 0, the clock speed will vary widely around the maximum single core value. But look at the C0% (next column). if at idle, that number will be low, perhaps only a couple of percent. So the CPU is in a C state (perhaps 7 or more - you can see by clicking the C states button). So the CPU is at rest most of the time (clock 0), but comes up to a high number when it needs to do anything. When fully loaded (C0%=100), the maximum clock is whatever it is allowed to run on all cores (of course, limited by throttling of various types. As UncleWebb has pointed out, setting EPP=0 allows processor to run as fast as it can when asked to do so, and spend the maximum time at rest.
     
  6. Che0063

    Che0063 Notebook Evangelist

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    upload_2020-8-28_11-39-24.png

    @unclewebb Standby Package C state residency reporting working fine. Nice to see a 4th gen i5 using C10 during modern standby.
     
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  7. chumley

    chumley Notebook Consultant

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    Aha, you are right! It seems that my Thinkpad with i7-8850H does enable Speed Step when I put it to sleep. I can reproduce it. I hadn't figured out the cause before. That machine obviously does support Speed Shift (SST), so as long as it's not harmful for Speed Step to also be enabled, then I won't worry about it.


    Thank you for that explanation. I was accustomed to running ThrottleStop as a service on machines with multiple user accounts, to ensure that ThrottleStop was always running once and only once, regardless of how many users were logged in. In the past I was not able to get task scheduler to do the job in that scenario.

    But of course you are right again! With Windows 10, I've confirmed that a scheduled task to run ThrottleStop "At system startup" works just fine. I tested with version 8.70.6 and 9.2. You have also convinced me that it's not necessary to run as a service. :)

    Last question:

    When undervolting an old C2D system, in the past I think it was recommended to modify the Windows power plan to set the both min and max processor states to 100%. It that still necessary with the current Windows 10 and Throttlestop versions?

    Thanks so much unclewebb!
     
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  8. Oemenia

    Oemenia Notebook Evangelist

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    I only started using the TPL window as the TRL option go greyed out. When it did work, I found it give more consistent results.
     
  9. Vasudev

    Vasudev Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Thanks unclewebb.
    Hybrid Shutdown might be the cause that enable speedstep. I usually have it enabled in BIOS for compatibility.
    TS as a service might be just like automated Task scheduler task gets added w/o creating it by-hand for end-users.
    I wanted to ask if Disable Power and Turbo limits in FIVR still functional w/o RW everything driver?
     
  10. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    Thanks for posting that pic. I did not realize that the 4th Gen used modern standby. That might be useful data when tracking down modern standby issues.

    I thought that maybe some computers might enable SpeedStep before Speed Shift gets activated. It does not seem to cause any problems so I just left it as is.

    I have not used a Core 2 Duo laptop for a while but I still recommend setting the Min and Max processor state to 100%. This is the best way to prevent Windows interfering with ThrottleStop. The 45nm CPUs use deep C states to save power so having a fast CPU when idle is not the huge power drain that one would think.

    Being able to adjust the turbo ratios does give more consistent results. When the turbo ratios are locked, adjusting Speed Shift Max is the only other option.

    Yes. This works exactly the same in all ThrottleStop versions. ThrottleStop 9.0 and newer versions use a new driver but it is still changing the exact same memory location.
     
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