The ThrottleStop Guide

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by unclewebb, Nov 7, 2010.

  1. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    There are always Windows Updates and other software updates. It is really difficult to keep track of some of the sneaky changes that are happening on a regular basis. Kind of like Dell quietly blocking under volting without informing users.

    It sounds like the Lenovo Vantage software is causing this problem. Do you really need Lenovo Vantage? My laptop runs fine without any Lenovo software on it. There is nothing in Windows 10 that I know of that manipulates the temperature offset register. It seems like it is just Lenovo that is doing this. I would try removing Vantage, even temporarily, to see if this is the cause.

    If you want to keep Vantage, I will try adding some code to ThrottleStop to monitor and adjust the offset value to either 0 which is the Intel recommended value or to 4. Let me know what value you would prefer.
     
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  2. pressing

    pressing Notebook Deity

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    EDIT - Dell changed the GPU throttle I think from 78*c to 74*c around 2018. I can't remember the exact flags and think that was done in 2018 via BIOS. It is in the forums.

    You should check out the XPS subforum here for some tips. Not a gaming laptop so power and thermal engineering on the XPS is weak.I have a 9550 so will get you started:

    - Undervolt and repaste lowered thermals about 6*c each (total CPU drop 13*c in benchmark) vs factory on my 9550 6300HQ. During benchmarks core deltas were about 2*c. GPU generally stays below 74*c in hard benchmarking. The 6700HQ somewhat overwhelms the chassis so the i5 was the "sweet spot" IMHO.

    - No comments on your ThrottleStop settings which are similar to mine.

    - "EPD Other on Ring" yellow flag - not sure there is a fix to that. Some weeks I don't see it but usually do even just surfing the web.

    - Windows Power Options - use "High Performance" (particularly as you run SpeedShift).

    - Dell Command | Power Manager - you can try setting "Ultra Performance" "Cool". These map some fan and power registers we can't otherwise access.

    - Since the CPU and GPU share heatpipes, can you reduce the performance of the CPU to give more thermal headroom to the GPU? Change EPP to say 78 (that will give access to max turbo speeds but also reduce power consumption); you need to bench test your CPU as that figure varies a bit by processor. You could even try higher EPP. EPP for max energy efficiency is 255 as you know.

    - The XPS heatpipes are not too flat so even the pros repaste a few times and stress test to figure out best performance; it is a pain. I see max temp delta of 5*c among your cores; that seems a bit high. The temps at idle are not particularly helpful. Make sure your heatsink is flat. You want the absolute min amount of thermal paste with full coverage; small rice grain size worked for me. There are tons of before and after repaste temps and benchmarks for the 6700HQ at the notebook review XPS forum.

    - Are you using new thermal pads on the VRAM? If so make sure you have very soft fluffy ones and that they are not too thick. OEM thermal pads might not be thick enough but several people used new pads that were too thick and/or too dense and that lifted the heatsink off the GPU to bad results.

    - I recall some people used MSI Afterburner to undervolt & change clocks on the GPU. There are some tips on the notebook review XPS forum.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
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  3. zilla0617

    zilla0617 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Thank you for your response. The GPU throttle affected XPS after mine, I believe the 9570 and newer. I experience no throttle just the heat from gaming. Im already using the Windows High Performance profile. I'll try using ultra performance or cool during my next gaming session. Im currently running 0 EPP for max performance. The VRAM pads are the stock ones the came with my XPS Dec '15. I looked into MSI afterburner to undervolt, it does not work with the 9550. The 9560 was the 1st XPS that enabled GPU undervolt using MSI afterburner

    @unclewebb That's unfortunate that's the case with soldered items. I'll look into Nvidia inspector, hopefully that will make a difference. As it is with every Nvidia driver I remove all the unnecessary components within the drive to make it as slim as possible. That's good to hear that my CPU is running great, many hours of reading, tweaking, and your wonderful program. Thanks again.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
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  4. skyh13

    skyh13 Newbie

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    Hi @unclewebb

    Thanks again. I have tried just about everything I can think to now, uninstalling Vantage, disabling Lenovo services (especially things like the "intelligent thermal solution service" and the "power manager service"), disabled the associated System Devices in Device Manager.. and still, something is overwriting that MSR value with 0x14. I'm at a loss as to what is dictating this overwrite.

    With or without Vantage, some code in ThrottleStop to adjust that offset would be amazing. Some developers created scripts to do this in Linux, https://github.com/erpalma/throttled. Not sure if that would be of any help to you or not.

    I'm somewhat ambivalent towards which value, but logical or not I suppose I feel more comfortable with 4 as an offset rather than zero, but either would be much better than now.

    I really appreciate the help, and I'm sure a lot of other thinkpad owners would appreciate this, too, assuming they're having the same trouble that I am.
     
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  5. rocketvole

    rocketvole Notebook Enthusiast

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    What's a good way to check if undervolt values are actually applying? I'm running a dell xps 9350 with the latest bios. I got some spare time to test undervolt values, and I've got my i7-6560u currently undervolted at -125 mv on core and cache (the highest that throttlestop seems to allow).

    Running prime95 on 4 threads with small FFTs, and my computer has a temp of about 90 C. Switching to a profile with no undervolt increases the temperature by a few degrees C, but I'm not sure if those results are significant. I mean, 125 mv for an undervolt seems insane, and I haven't encountered a single crash yet. I was also expecting cooler temps: around 80 degrees on cpu load only.

    I am also running the computer at "Best performance" in power settings. I'm not sure if there's another power setting I should be using.

    Any help would be appreciated- Am I doing something wrong, or did I just lose the silicon lottery?
     
  6. Che0063

    Che0063 Notebook Evangelist

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    Thinkpad E14 here. I can change MSR Temperature offset to whatever I want and it will always take effect.
    upload_2020-4-8_9-51-27.png

    By default my laptop boots up with 90 degrees as the max throttle temperature. (Hex A=10C, TjMax=100, so 100-10=90C). I can change that value to whatever I like. My settings apply regardless of whether I have Lenovo services (PM, Platform, Intelligent Thermal, Hotkey etc) enabled or disabled, and regardless of what power plan I use.

    If I have the Intelligent Thermal Solution enabled and am an balanced, the power slider in Windows will adjust these offsets.

    Interestingly after a while, or if I hit too high a CPU Power level, something in either the BIOS or EC suddenly changes and this value throttles to 2E (54 degree throttling temperature). I have to manually go to revert the value.

    The behaviour wasn't always like this - in an older BIOS version, the CPU would default to 19 (75 degree throttling temp), and had significantly lower max temps. So a BIOS update may have made the different for you.

    On another note @skyh13 I wonder if youc ould help me with manually controlling my fans:
    upload_2020-4-8_9-58-29.png
    Register 0x2F sets the EC to manual/BIOS control, and 0xCB controls how aggressive the fan curve is. But writing a value of 0-7 in register 2F does nothing, unlike literally every other older Thinkpad. All those tpfancontrol programs use 0x2F to change the fan speed, but it doesn't seem to work here.
     
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  7. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    I think you are right. I have already started working on this feature. It might be a game changer for some people.

    On my 4th Gen CPU, changing the temperature target offset in MSR 0x1A2 did not change anything. The CPU ignored this change when in Windows. I just tried this on a 7th Gen desktop CPU and changing that MSR immediately changed the thermal throttling temperature. I used RWEverything and wrote 5 bits of data to that register.

    11111b = 31 decimal
    100°C TjMax - 31°C offset = 69°C thermal throttling temperature.

    Prime 95 should be able to get me up to that temp with the OEM heatsink and fan.

    [​IMG]

    There you have it. Thermal throttling at 69°C. Both disgusting and satisfying to get to the bottom of this crippling feature.

    TS is reporting the PROCHOT temperature wrong because it is ignoring the 5th bit that I set in RWEverything. It thinks the offset is 15°C but it is actually 15°C + 16 = 31°C

    I see a new TS version in the near future so users will have some control over the offset value.
     
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  8. rocketvole

    rocketvole Notebook Enthusiast

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    Should I see PKG power supposed decrease as I undervolt? Pre-undervolt and post undervolt performance seems identical, but I do get a instant BSOD if I set the undervolt to something below -130 mv.

    It's kind of weird because I finally have time to really undervolt my system and I'm not seeing performance gains for any reason, and almost negligible temperature gains. Hwinfo64 shows that there is some undervolt applied when I click on core info.
     

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  9. cktducky

    cktducky Notebook Geek

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    @unclewebb
    Hi unclewebb,

    I recently change my laptop to Intel 10th gen i7-1065G7, which is HP Spectre x360 later 2019. I can still use Throttlestop and everything seems to be fine after I re-paste the thermal paste on CPU(I think this action is a must, otherwise it will go to max temp about 3 seconds with the original thermal paste :cool:), but the BCLK is not correctly reported, it is something about 62-63Mhz. I can get the correct value using RealTemp utility. Thus, any idea in it? Or I can change something can get the correct value? Thanks a lot.
     
  10. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKs Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on FILTHY

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    http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/page-1109#post-10996008

    http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/page-1109#post-10996014
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
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