The ThrottleStop Guide

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by unclewebb, Nov 7, 2010.

  1. ex.treme

    ex.treme Notebook Consultant

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    Last edited: Apr 1, 2020
  2. hfm

    hfm Notebook Prophet

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    Be super careful using Conductonaut if you've never used liquid metal before. It's dangerous and can lead to rendering your unit dead if any leaks and shorts something out, be careful.
     
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  3. magnetoeric

    magnetoeric Notebook Enthusiast

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    I need some explanation regarding my laptop's behaviour whenever I boot it on for the first time. As soon as windows loads up, power usage will be over 25w and the CPU multipliers will be 37-39 (Mine's i7-8750) for few minutes even on battery where maximum usage would never cross 25w and multipliers will be 22 max. After certain time, it returns to normal. Is this the usual behaviour on every laptop?
     
  4. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    It is the usual behaviour on any computer if your install of Windows is bloated or you have a lot of apps that start up with Windows. Some antivirus programs like to give your hard drive a good thrashing when you first start up. I have no idea how your laptop is set up or how you have ThrottleStop set up. Post a ThrottleStop screenshot if you think your CPU is doing something that you do not think it should be doing.
    Why are you still using ThrottleStop 6.00 from October 2013? Do you have a soft spot for that old version? I finally fixed the bug that you solved. The system tray icons work great in ThrottleStop 8.70 and Windows 10.
    If I can do what?
    It was kind of you to send me the 20 MB Insyde flash program along with all of those ROM files but what am I supposed to do with that stuff? I have zero experience with that program or editing a ROM or flashing that to the BIOS. I am not brave enough to do that to my own computer. I would never edit a ROM and ask someone else to install that on their computer. That is way too dangerous.
    I asked you to try increasing the turbo power limits in the TPL window but your screenshot shows that you did not do that. That is the only ThrottleStop advice that I have for you. It would also be a good idea to stop and delete all of the useless Windows background tasks. Using the proper power adapter that your computer originally came with would also help out.

    If using ThrottleStop did not solve your problem, there is nothing more that I can do.
     
  5. Talon

    Talon Notebook Virtuoso

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    Luckily you can just roll back the BIOS to an earlier version and avoid the BS.
     
  6. yahyoh

    yahyoh Notebook Enthusiast

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    already rolled back to the previous bios, it seemed something is locking it up in winodws itself.

    As per my previous post:

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 2, 2020
  7. maffle

    maffle Notebook Evangelist

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    Sometimes after waking up from hibernate, TS kinda is "bugged" showing a c0% activity over all cores of 3-4% like this, even nothing else is running, and process explorer shows 99% idle:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    This wont go away anymore until rebooting the laptop. Not sure if the readings are just wrong, of it is a bug again with the XP 15 9570. Have no idea though what could cause this.

    After shutdown and power on (reboot doesnt seem to help) it is back to normal:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
  8. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    I did a Before and After Hibernate test on my laptop. About a minute after resuming, the C0% before and after for each thread was close to identical.

    [​IMG]

    TS is not bugged. The amount of time a core has to spend in the C0 state processing background tasks is not comparable to what Process Explorer or the Task Manager shows for CPU usage. These programs are not measuring the same thing.

    One thing that significantly influences C0% when a CPU is lightly loaded is the CPU speed. A faster CPU will get background tasks done much quicker. This allows the CPU to spend less time in the C0 state.

    A CPU that is forced to run at 800 MHz is going to need to spend 5 times longer in the C0 state compared to the same CPU running at 4000 MHz. That means a slow CPU that needs to spend 4.0% in the C0 state would only need to spend 0.8% in the C0 state on the same CPU when set to its maximum speed. Big difference. In either situation, Process Explorer would probably show the exact same thing.

    ThrottleStop is measuring C0% directly from high performance timers within your CPU. If it is showing you a difference, it is showing you something that is actually happening after you resume from hibernate. This does not happen on my computer with Windows 10 so there must be some program or driver on your computer that is more active after you resume which is forcing the CPU to spend more time in the C0 state. Maybe the CPU is bugged. Probably not. Maybe it is a bad driver. I have no idea why or what the problem is but it is definitely happening.

    If you want to do some more testing, try setting the Speed Shift EPP variable to 0 so your CPU can process the background tasks more efficiently at a more consistent speed. Before and after you resume, make sure everything else is turned off. No Google Chrome, no Process Explorer or Task Manager, no nothing. Only TS open on the desktop. Let it sit for a while and see if it ever changes or is still stuck at a higher C0%.
     
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  9. maffle

    maffle Notebook Evangelist

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    @unclewebb Thanks for looking into this and some words on it. Then this is a bug with the XPS 15 9570, and its catastrophic bios/EC. It seems to be the same phenomenon, when resuming from S3 sleep, and a constant c0% activity is shown in TS, but this time just on one core, and won't go away anymore, until a reboot. I found out later, that the issue here could be removed too, if deactivating all USB devices via device manager, also BT. And the broken c0% activity would go away.

    The shown issue above is though happening on all cores and also all virtual cores. I also have to add, that a normal reboot of Windows did NOT fix this (no I dont use Windows quick boot), I had to power off and then power on again, to clear the c0% activity over all cores, and then it went back to the normal behavior.

    Like I said, this is also not a 100% reproducible issue, it happens at least once every few days though, after several hibernate cycles. I have the suspicion that it happens with a higher than, when I have a device on the TB connected and let it hibernate during this time and wake up. Disconnecting the TB port doesnt help anymore though after this is triggered.

    I have no idea what is causing it, but I am sure it has something to do with a broken state the CPU enters, or the EC/bios, and some feedback loop is going on not going away anymore, in a driver or the EC.

    The shown above issue was done with no tasks at all, I also killed literally everything after making the screenshots, and lots of times before. This wasn't the first day I had this issue, I have it at least 2-3 times per week. And I did a lot of testing already on this, also with killing all tasks possible. I just made the screenshots with process explorer ect to make a point.

    The 3-4% over all cores wont go away anymore even if waiting hours. Just when doing a shutdown and reboot.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2020
  10. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    I have finally been able to fix my stuck in package C2 bug after resuming. When I see this problem, I need to open the Intel HD Graphics Control Panel and I have to force it to Single Display mode. After that, Package C6 instantly starts working correctly. I am no fan of Dell but in this case, it is a crappy Intel GPU driver that gets the blame.

    [​IMG]

    There is always a mad rush to get products to market to take advantage of specific selling seasons like Back to School, Black Friday, Christmas, etc. Minor bugs are put on the things to do list. If very few people notice or complain, things like C state bugs never get fixed. Extended battery run time might be a feature someday if some smart guy ever tracks down this bug and gets it solved. Maybe next year or maybe Intel will continue to lose market share to their competition.

    A constant CPU load is usually a driver that is stuck in a loop and is constantly sampling something a billion times a second instead of a hundred times a second. If you are curious, try setting EPP to 0, turn on the More Data option and then turn on the Log File option. Is C0% fairly constant in the log or is there a series of regular spikes? You can also do this test with your normal EPP setting of 84.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2020
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