The ThrottleStop Guide

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by unclewebb, Nov 7, 2010.

  1. UDPSendToFailed

    UDPSendToFailed Newbie

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    Hi unclewebb, thanks for reply! :)

    You were right, lowering the CPU Core voltage alone is useless, I set it to -1000mV for testing, nothing happened, so it was just placebo.

    I didn't know the default Turbo Ratio Limits, that's why I set them to max, I modified them while testing some settings in Turbo Power Limits window, luckily it's all unlocked by default, no need to mess with BIOS modding.

    I'm not sure if TPL does anything useful or it's a placebo too. In AIDA64 the changes show up, and setting the default 51W to 100W for example, eliminates almost all red blinking of EDP OTHER in Limit Reasons window, only goes to red under stress testing. Leaving them on default 51W makes EDP OTHER blink red at almost any load, opening Start Menu for example. Here are some screenshots while moving the mouse pointer, I don't know if this is normal or not:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Sadly it doesn't reach the max 4 core Turbo clock (4.3GHz) under full load, doesn't matter which setting I change:

    [​IMG]

    After about a minute it starts to throttle even more, going down to 2.6GHz and lower over time, the TJmax is 100℃, so I don't understand why.

    Downloaded the version you sent, it looks like working fine, just as the previous version did, I had no issues with it. Here are the screenshots of all tabs on default settings: https://imgur.com/a/6tqnLVy

    Edit: I don't know if this is AIDA64's bug or not, setting Turbo Time Limit to high values makes it go in negative.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
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  2. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    @UDPSendToFailed - Try using the FIVR -Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits option.

    Set the time limits to the default 28 seconds. Avoid maxing out the time limits in TS.

    Try increasing all of the IccMax limits.

    You need to try and get beyond the power limits before you can see the max multi in a 4 core test. Hopefully the above tips help. Thanks for the pics.

    For undervolting, try starting with -75 mV for core and cache. If stable, go further. This helps keep power consumption down which should increase turbo boost.
     
  3. UDPSendToFailed

    UDPSendToFailed Newbie

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    @unclewebb

    Thanks, the Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits option and increasing IccMax values did the trick, it's now able to reach 4.3GHz with 4 cores loaded. Doesn't this fry the VRMs or something else? The power consumption goes over 50 watts for a 15W TDP CPU, I don't know if the laptop's power circuits and the 65W charger can handle this or not. I'm not going to run it on max load 24/7, just trying to optimize for the best performance. : P This is the result after changing Cores IccMax from 70A to 100A and Cache to 6A to 10A:

    [​IMG]

    At undervolting, I have tried -70mV equally for cores and cache, it gave me instant freeze and BSOD, looks stable on -55mV.
     
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  4. pressing

    pressing Notebook Deity

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    Awesome results. How long can you run 4 cores at 4.3GHz?
     
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  5. UDPSendToFailed

    UDPSendToFailed Newbie

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    Not too long, after several runs of 256M TS Bench, it starts to thermal throttle and even the mouse pointer lags. Also a VR CURRENT label showed up in Limit Reasons window, sometimes it goes red while THERMAL under CORE and EDP OTHER under RING are constantly red after a time. In Geekbench 4, this modification gave me +2000 multi-core points. : P I think it can be further increased with a custom fan profile, but it's not supported yet by any software. BTW, I don't know why it starts to thermal throttle, the TJmax is 100°C as per Intel's site, ThrottleStop says 92°C.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  6. pressing

    pressing Notebook Deity

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    Maybe your Zenbook has some thermal and or powergates you have not disabled.

    For example, looking at the temp sensors in one of the free monitoring software, you might see that when certain temp sensors hit a temp threshold, throttling starts. On the Dell XPS 15, there is an amibient temp sensor that might throttle at 74*C. Some fixes might include: permanently uninstalling Intel DPTF or finding the physical sensor on the board and disabling it. Of course, the extreme heat could shorten the life of components, kill the laptop, or perhaps fire.

    Note the "name" of some temp sensors might be incorrectly labeled in your monitoring software so you have to use some common sense there as the DIMM temp probably is not hitting 120*C lol.

    You might figure out some power thresholds that are not easily defeated. Maybe something like RWEverything to observe registers and Zenbook forums help.

    A small laptop designed around a 15W system just won't sustain 50W. The current and heat are pushing the components too hard. The fans and radiators are just too small. The mosfets, in particular, will get very hot; as you push them, they become increasingly inefficient and hotter, spiraling out of control. Other components in the VRM may be more robust but in a tiny laptop there is very little cooling in that area, principally the motherboard and some stagnant air will passively extract a bit of heat.
     
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  7. UDPSendToFailed

    UDPSendToFailed Newbie

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    @pressing

    Thanks for explaining it! :) I'm satisfied with the 4.3GHz allcore, I don't want to push it any further at all costs, +2000 points in Geekbench 4 is still a good increase. It will almost never run fully loaded, but when the power is needed, it's better to have the best settings. : P
    Sorry for the confusion. :) I just want to make sure that the current settings are safe for normal usage, light gaming, sometimes rendering, etc. I don't really know if these components are designed to have a "reserve", so they can do more than it's set by default, it's just limited to save battery, etc, or they get overloaded by these settings.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  8. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    :D I think ThrottleStop is working as intended on the 10th Gen U series! :D

    I have no idea how much extra power consumption and performance is OK. If possible, try to use some common sense. Now you know why I include that lame "be careful" message when you first start ThrottleStop.

    Intel allows Individual manufacturers to offset the default 100°C TjMax value. ThrottleStop tells it like it is. A TjMax setting of 92°C is what a cowardly manufacturer uses when shipping an under designed laptop. Too bad they do not have the guts to advertise this limitation. Consumers paying for a new laptop should be provided with enough information up front so they can make an informed buying choice.

    Personally, I would clear the BD PROCHOT box in ThrottleStop. You appear to be getting lots of bang for the buck so feel free to ignore that advice.
     
  9. Avé César

    Avé César Notebook Consultant

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    Hi, just for info @unclewebb , today after a back up of all my system, I took the risk of update windows on my pc for "security" patches, always using 3rd party software (wub.exe +wumt ) as i always do. I didn't update since 8 month and thought i need to update my NetFramewoks too...
    Because of my tweaks since day 1, and my options (Windows options, update differ 1 month) , I received the update via wumt from the 14 january 2020 with the KB4534273. Got a back up of the "mcgenuineintel.dll" in case but after the update done, it 's still the good one, no changes.

    So far so good, undervolt still works on my MSI GE73 Raider 8RF as Throttlestop shows in the FIVR panel (ver. 8.70.6)
    On the support page, MSI didnd't update the Bios too for now ( https://fr.msi.com/Laptop/support/GE73-Raider-RGB-8RF )

    Edit : Windows ver 1809, took update for the OS, Flash, Net Frameworks. Hide rivet networks update, Intel Corp Display (what a mess WU wanna gives you old intel Gfx drivers as always...)

    But I thought they implement the devil mcupdate_genuineIntel.dll in december via windows update ?!... I am surprised
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2020
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  10. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    I had a look at the file list. mcupdate_GenuineIntel.dll is not anywhere in the KB4534273 update.

    On December 10th, 2019, Intel came out with an advisory and warned their customers that adjustable CPU voltages could potentially be dangerous.

    https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/security-center/advisory/intel-sa-00289.html

    By this time, HP was already blocking voltage control with BIOS updates. You only need to change a single bit in a single register. Any manufacturer at any time can easily put an end to adjustable voltages. Microsoft has followed HP and is now doing the same on their Surface Pro.

    In December, based on previous experience with similar security updates, I thought it would probably be 3 or 4 months before this fix would show up on Windows Update. They will wait until everyone has forgotten about this issue and their guard is down and then wham, good bye adjustable voltage and good bye adjustable turbo ratio limits.

    I am not 101% sure about this but as always, best to be ready and best to keep a close eye on any updates. Maybe I am just paranoid but there will be no automatic Windows updates for me.
     
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