The ThrottleStop Guide

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by unclewebb, Nov 7, 2010.

  1. ole!!!

    ole!!! Notebook Prophet

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    thats where i got confused with shift/step. another question, i find that turning on speedshift in TPL window and in main window with a value of 1 gives much better idle temp than just enabling cstate. is there a reason why that is?
     
  2. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    @ole!!! - I love screenshots. Show me your comparison. Make sure it is a fair comparison and you are only changing one variable. The load (C0%) should be very similar. If you are comparing EPP values, make sure the rest of the C states are enabled in both tests or the rest of the C states are disabled in both tests.

    When Speed Shift is enabled, open up the FIVR window and have a look in the monitoring table to see what EPP value the CPU is actually using. If you are using a Windows Balanced power profile, the CPU might not be using the EPP value (1) that you are requesting in ThrottleStop. If you are going to be playing with the Speed Shift EPP value in ThrottleStop, best to use the Windows High Performance power profile to reduce the chance of Windows and ThrottleStop interfering with each other. There is only one CPU and it only has one Speed Shift EPP register.

    When you enable C states in the bios, open up the C states window in ThrottleStop and make sure that your CPU is actually using the appropriate C states. If they are disabled in the BIOS, check the ThrottleStop C state window. It should show lots of 0.0 values. Some BIOS options may not work correctly, especially if it is a modified BIOS. Some BIOS versions like to use terms like AUTO which can vary. That is why it is best to use ThrottleStop to double check what state the CPU is really in.

    ThrottleStop can only report 4 of your 8 cores in the C state window but when idle, it should give you a pretty good idea if your C states are working correctly or not. An idle CPU should have individual cores spending 99% of the time in C7 if this is enabled.
     
  3. ole!!!

    ole!!! Notebook Prophet

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    all on 44x/35x for core/cache and -125mv for quick test, cpu fan completely turned off, all passive cooling.

    clipboard-09.png

    clipboard-10.png

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  4. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    @ole!!! - I think you are on to something here. Time to sleep. I need time to dream so I can come up with a good explanation for tomorrow.
     
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  5. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    @ole!!! - Intel CPUs are inefficient when held down to 800 MHz. To minimize power consumption and heat, the ideal CPU would be able to instantly go from 800 MHz to full speed, process what ever needs to be processed and then immediately go back to 800 MHz or better yet, enter one of the low power C states like C7 which automatically shuts down the majority of the core to save power.

    Older versions of Windows used SpeedStep. The Balanced profile did a poor job of letting the CPU ramp up to an efficient speed when needed. Intel decided to take control of this important task away from the operating system. Speed Shift allows the CPU to manage itself. It can get up to speed much faster when needed to. This provides a better user experience and it also allows the CPU to operate at a more efficient speed when a task needs to be processed.

    I think this is what you are observing. Not only does Speed Shift allow the CPU to get up to speed much quicker, it also allows it to return to an idle state much quicker when there is nothing that needs to be processed. Check out the VID voltage reported by ThrottleStop in the examples above. When SpeedStep is controlling things, the reported VID voltage is 1.10 volts. When Speed Shift is controlling the CPU, the VID voltage has dropped down to 0.73 volts. I think if you ran a couple of log files with your CPU mostly idle, you would see a big decrease in the reported VID voltage. Less average voltage is the reason your CPU is running cooler.

    If you want your CPU to run cooler when idle or lightly loaded, go into the bios and enable C3, C6, C7 and test again.

    In your example above, you have set the Speed Shift EPP request variable to 1. You appear to be using the Windows Balanced power profile. Open up the FIVR window and have a look in the monitoring table. The Speed Shift EPP value reported in that table is the value that the CPU is actually using. Is your CPU using an EPP value of 1? If it is not the same EPP value as your request value, that means Windows is in control of EPP. If Windows is in control, do not check the Speed Shift EPP box in ThrottleStop. If you want ThrottleStop to be in control of EPP, try using the Windows High Performance power plan. Repeat this test to see whether Windows or ThrottleStop is controlling EPP.
     
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  6. ole!!!

    ole!!! Notebook Prophet

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    i have to use both speed shift + c1e box in order to get lower idle voltage than c1e which is the reason i find odd, but it does make sense since speed shift just came out within last 2-3 yrs and it's purposes is just like you mentioned, ramp up clock and down much quicker for responsiveness and power saving.

    i am using performance profile with all coreparking demote everything disabled so window is told to use max at everything. I do not want window to touch anything i set in bios much less i set in TS, i want TS to control my machine, the EPP value in FIVR is 1 like my request box. I can set this to say 0 for cstate off, or higher value but 1 is like having both and its nice.

    i also find it interesting that i can check the box power save in TS that will limit me to 12x but the power consumption is similar to idle with speedshift EPP1 + C1E.
     
  7. Marocco2

    Marocco2 Notebook Enthusiast

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    @unclewebb What Interrupt Response Limit inside C3, C6, C7 should I set to make my cores sleep more frequently or go to C10 as soon as possible?

    Surface Pro 7 i5
     
  8. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    I cannot argue with that statement. Nice to still have that level of control in 2020. I have a feeling that Microsoft, Intel and many of the major manufacturers are working hard to take user control out of user's hands this year.

    A low multi used to be important when idle but modern Intel CPUs have other ways to save power. A slow CPU is inefficient and can end up wasting more power than it saves.

    @Marocco2 - Never had my hands on a laptop with a 10th Gen CPU that uses C10. On my 4th Gen CPU, I have the IRL time values in ThrottleStop set to 64, 96 and 192. Why? No idea. For many CPUs, changing these values does not seem to make any significant difference. You will have to do some hands on testing to see if changing these from their default value is a good thing to do. Post some pics if you discover something new.
     
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  9. UDPSendToFailed

    UDPSendToFailed Newbie

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    Hi!

    I would have a stupid question, I got a Zenbook 14 with i7 10510U.
    I did some undervolting on CPU Core (-150mV), it works fine, but every guide is different about CPU Cache voltage. I left it on default, will it harm anything? Why it should be the same as CPU Core?
    If I try to lower CPU Cache voltage, it starts freezing at -80-100mV, is this normal? The cores are stable on -150mV.

    Thanks for help! :)

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    @UDPSendToFailed - With many of the 5th to 9th Gen CPUs, the core and cache offset voltages need to be adjusted equally. When you adjust only the CPU Core offset voltage all by itself, are you sure that is doing anything? Does it make your CPU run cooler after doing this? On older Gen CPUs, adjusting only the CPU core offset did not accomplish anything. It would show the reduced voltage in the monitoring table but the actual voltage going to the CPU did not change one bit. The voltage only changed when adjusting core and cache at the same time.

    Maybe the 10th Gen CPUs are different. Maybe core and cache can be adjusted independently of each other. I do not own one so I am not sure. Go run something simple like the built in TS Bench benchmark program and while this benchmark is running, adjust the CPU core voltage all by itself and try to prove that this is accomplishing something. If you do not notice any difference, you should be adjusting the core and cache equally.

    Adjusting all of the Turbo Ratio Limits up to 49 is probably not doing anything either. The newer version of ThrottleStop will show you what the default values are for these settings. Going beyond the default values will not overclock your CPU. The maximum multipliers are fixed in the U series CPUs.

    ThrottleStop 8.74
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1rVVD_Fb3P_L1lzqW-_3DVLoxj6IrwEuO

    With the newer version, post a screenshot or two so I can make sure that it is working correctly on your 10th Gen CPU.
     
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