The ThrottleStop Guide

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by unclewebb, Nov 7, 2010.

  1. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    What CPU do you have? The 8750H?

    In the ThrottleStop Turbo Overclocking area if it shows +0, that means your CPU does not support overclocking. The maximum multiplier is locked at the factory by Intel and cannot be increased by using ThrottleStop, XTU or any other software. That is why the Overclock box is greyed out. Your CPU does not support this feature.
     
  2. HORRIFIDO

    HORRIFIDO Notebook Enthusiast

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    I uncheck BD PROCHOT and first test was OK (3109 points) but at the second try, close to the first (temp around 65ºC) with throttle again (around 85% of the test) but better result???? (3120).
     
  3. M4cr0s

    M4cr0s Notebook Consultant

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    @unclewebb

    A few posts back about the MSI Afterburner issue, you commented on the C-states. I have since then looked into this and got things to work as I think they are supposed to with a little tweaking and some culling of background services. I haven't been able to figure out what the deal is with Afterburner though, but at the moment I don't run it.

    This is now typical idling with Chrome with about 40 tabs running and my usual array of tray apps and background services. Even after a day and a half of running, it looks the same way after a restart of Chrome (as you know memory leaks and things tend to "get stuck" in browsers). The laptop runs amazingly cool when idling night now, seeing idle temps as low as 26c with 20-21c in the room.

    I am still working with the VR Thermal triggers I asked about a few pages back and things are looking better after some strategically placed copper heat shims combined with the uv'ing. I am moving very slowly forward with this though, because I try to pinpoint exactly where the problem is. Maybe I can get rid of that issue completely. Bottom line, this device is running fairly well now and feels very, very stable. Only crashes I've seen lately are from known bugs/issues in certain programs/games. Throttlestop is proving to be a huge help and I and others owe you a lot.

    2019-11-21_224320.jpg

    Also, TS Bench is looking quite acceptable for an 9750h.

    record.jpg
     
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  4. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    When bench testing, have Limit Reasons open. When all 6 cores are active, if the multiplier drops below 40, there has to be a reason why this is happening. There must be something lighting up in Limit Reasons which will give you a clue what needs to be adjusted. Thermal throttling is only one reason. There are many other reasons that need to be investigated.

    The built in TS Bench test is a light duty benchmark compared to Cinebench R20. You will need to increase one of the many limits if you want to run R20 at full speed.

    That is what I always preach. Get the crud off of a computer and it can run amazingly cool regardless of speed. Glad to hear that TS is working well for you.
     
  5. HORRIFIDO

    HORRIFIDO Notebook Enthusiast

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    Thx for the advices :)

    These are the indicators in the first test with the cold pc. I have observed that the power falls from 70w to 50 high or 60w when the multipliers begin to drop (I don't know if it is cause or consequence).

    Any idea how I can fix it?

    To say that the notebook is as it came from the factory (same bad thermal paste), no cooling pad added and with medium profile (equilibrated); and still, after using TS, the temperatures are excellent considering the components and that it never goes above 85ºC, even in games.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  6. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    @HORRIFIDO - With the help of ThrottleStop, Intel CPUs are pretty easy to understand. When the 9750H has 6 cores loaded, if the CPU is not throttling, it should be using the 40 multiplier. ThrottleStop is reporting a multiplier of 38.23 so that is the first sign of throttling. Towards the lower right, there is a round radio button called Throttle and it has a big black dot. Another sign of throttling. With Limit Reasons open, PL1 is glowing red so there it is; your CPU is throttling because it is trying to exceed the PL1 power limit. When PL1 lights up in red, EDP OTHER under the RING column usually light up red too. PL1 is the important one.

    Intel CPUs are designed to slow down so they do not exceed either of the turbo power limits.

    Open up the Turbo Power Limits window (TPL button) and see what the Turbo Boost Long Power Max is set to. If this is set too low, PL1 will light up and if the one below this, Turbo Boost Short Power Max is set too low, PL2 will light up. While the benchmark is running, it is OK to adjust these power limits. Try raising the Long term value and see if the throttling goes away. It is a good idea when adjusting these to make sure that PL2 is always greater than or equal to PL1. In other words, if PL1 is set to 60 then PL2 should also be set to at least 60.

    The CPU can run at the short limit for a short period of time. When time is up, now it will have to make sure that it does not exceed the PL1 long term limit.

    The main screen of ThrottleStop is showing 61.4 Watts while this throttling is in progress. If you set PL1 and PL2 both to 80, either the throttling is going to stop or the throttling will continue. If the throttling stops, you have solved the problem. If throttling continues and power consumption is still reporting approximately the same Watts, that means this setting is not holding your CPU back. It must be another limit causing the problem.

    Open the FIVR window and make sure the Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits box is checked. If you have not already done so, follow the directions and download and install the RwDrv.sys file into your ThrottleStop folder.

    If RwDrv.sys is installed and Disable and Lock is checked and both of your long and short power limits are set high and your CPU is still throttling then you are officially screwed. There is a third set of power limits controlled by the EC that ThrottleStop and Intel XTU do not have access to. There is no way beyond this limit. At this point, all you can do is post your laptop on EBay and take the proceeds and invest in a laptop like @Mr. Fox has. His 9750H is not limited like this. That is why his benchmark numbers bring tears of joy every time I see a new one, especially when I also see that little TS icon in the system tray. Truly beautiful stuff!

    To learn ThrottleStop, put a load on the CPU and adjust the power limits up and down and watch what happens in Limit Reasons and watch what happens to the multiplier. People get scared of ThrottleStop when you really do not have to be. You can adjust voltages while a benchmark is running. Watch for things like temperature, the multiplier and watch for throttling flags going off in Limit Reasons.
     
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  7. HORRIFIDO

    HORRIFIDO Notebook Enthusiast

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    @unclewebb Here is your million of Likes :)

    I have followed your instructions and the alerts have disappeared, even after 3 consecutive tests. Bad luck for Ebay :cool:.

    Although I am only taking the first steps with TS, I had no suspicion of the consumption limits since in one of my first posts I asked if it was correct that my laptop had 90W in both (min and max). Although it never reached that figure in the banks (max 72), after deactivating the limits it has reached peaks of 78W, also increasing temperatures up to 87ºC and therefore actually squeezing the processor. Thanks, again!

    However, I still don't understand some aspects:

    - If the factory limit is 90w, why without deactivating limits it was reduced and Throttle appeared?

    - Now it is configured as follows, is it correct?

    [​IMG]

    - And the question that makes me crazy, why do I get the same (or better) result in "Balanced" mode than in "High performance"? Maybe even if you have selected 50% in "Balance" TS does it over Windows with SpeedShift in "0"?


    Thanks again for your advice and time.
     
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  8. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    The Intel specified TDP limit for the 9750H is actually only 45 Watts. Imagine how much these CPUs would throttle if manufacturers stuck to that limit.

    https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...9750h-processor-12m-cache-up-to-4-50-ghz.html

    As I previously mentioned, there are multiple sets of power limits. Different manufacturers use some of these limits and not others while some manufacturers use all of these limits to make your computing experience miserable. If your laptop manufacturer set both the long and short Turbo Boost Power Limits to 90 Watts like your picture shows and your CPU was throttling, then they were probably setting the secondary set of power limits to a lower value to cause this. A big number like 90 makes a user feel good about things but it is meaningless if they quietly set the secondary power limits to 60 behind their back.

    That is why ThrottleStop's Disable and Lock feature is good to have. It prevents a lot of throttling schemes by blocking access to the secondary set of power limits. @Mr. Fox was not a happy camper until I recommended that he should install and enable this feature. Check one little box in TS and you can go from :( to :D

    If your CPU is not being throttled, when ThrottleStop is properly setup, there should not be any big difference between High Performance and Balanced. TS Bench results can vary significantly when a laptop has a lot of background tasks running so do not use that. The TS Bench is just a convenient benchmark that allows a user to quickly load their CPU so they can watch how the multiplier reacts. What benchmarks are you running that show this difference? Now that TS is working for you, are you still seeing a significant difference between High Performance and Balanced? Post some screenshot examples.

    I encourage using the High Performance power profile with Speed Shift EPP set to 0 for maximum performance. If you want your CPU to slow down while lightly loaded or on battery power, continue using the Windows High Performance power profile and switch to a TS profile that has EPP set to somewhere between 80 and 128. Concentrate on minimizing the number of useless and inefficient apps running in the background. People spend too much time looking at idle MHz and power consumption data. The power consumption data that Intel CPUs generate is only an estimation. It is not measured power consumption. Intel's only use for this data is to control turbo boost throttling. It was never intended to be used for accurate power consumption purposes, especially when a CPU is lightly loaded with multiple cores constantly bouncing around from one C state to the next.

    To minimize power consumption, watch the ThrottleStop C state data instead. Individual cores spending most of their time in the low power C7 state is the easiest way to save power and keep temperatures low.
     
  9. HORRIFIDO

    HORRIFIDO Notebook Enthusiast

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    Well, once again I thank you for explaining things so simply and helping us use the full potential of the computer that is "really" ours.

    Following your instructions I have done two tests of 5 minutes each in Cinebench R20, one in High Performance and another in Balanced, and after having deactivated some secondary applications.
    The records continue to improve: we started with 2700 points without TS, with the first undervolt we reached 3080 and with your advice we are already in 3142. At no time has Throttle or associated errors appeared. Although there is very little difference I still get better results in Balanced mode, 3139 vs 3142.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Just to clarify, when I say that I use the "Turbo mode" or "Performance mode" I mean the cooling mode of Asus that both have associated the "High Performance" of W10. It is the Asus "Windows mode" where you let W10 itself choose power mode, in my case Balanced for slightly better results.

    I encourage all those who are in my initial situation with little knowledge of TS and reluctance with some parameters to improve their PC. With reading and help from the community I have a better and quieter notebook (especially in low or medium load) and that in real maximums (games) is far from dangerous temperatures (always below 90ºC). All this with cooling and thermal paste as standard ...
     
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  10. Valued17

    Valued17 Notebook Geek

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    Hello everyone, I have an MSI GP63 with 8750H.

    My laptop goes beyond 90 degrees with just 5 tabs on chrome open and especially when playing youtube videos. Fans are literally always running even when my room temperature is only 15-20 degree celcius.

    This laptop is almost 18 months old and I am considering thermal repasting. Question is Should I ? I mean with just 5 tabs open in a browser and a youtube video playing, it shouldn't throttle ?

    I am not much familiar with Throttle Stop, just found out about this 2 days back and have made some changes, I will attach some pics below. These changes have decreased the temps but I guess I am not getting my money's worth especially because I have turbo boost disabled to get low temps. If there is any recommendation re:settings - please advise. I am trying to learn.

    Apart from any change in settings, will thermal pasting help in my case ?


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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