The ThrottleStop Guide

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by unclewebb, Nov 7, 2010.

  1. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    Are you using the FIVR - Disable and Lock Turbo Power Limits feature? This feature allowed a similar Lenovo C930 with an i7-8550U to achieve maximum performance with no throttling until it reached the thermal throttling temperature. Definitely no power limit throttling. It was not my laptop so i did not perform any heroic measures trying to get the temps under control. With some liquid metal, who knows, maybe it could have sustained full speed indefinitely.

    [​IMG]

    I always like finding a reason to show what ThrottleStop is capable of and also show how a low power U CPU should run!

    If you want a Lenovo version of ThrottleStop, download the following image, rename it to logo.png and copy that file into your ThrottleStop folder.

    https://i.imgur.com/6SRGMOu.png

    @Mr. Fox - Great to see ThrottleStop reporting your BCLK accurately to 3 decimal places. At 102.7 MHz, you have probably hit the wall. Looking good. :vbthumbsup:

    Edit - Good news. I just got confirmation that the new zero offset voltage option works like a charm on a Dell XPS 15. No more hangs when resuming from sleep mode.

     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  2. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox BGA Filth-Hating Elitist

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    Here's a logo for anyone that wants it.
    upload_2019-11-10_21-9-10.png
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  3. M4cr0s

    M4cr0s Notebook Consultant

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    I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but I think my Google skills for some reason are not working right now.

    I will get flashy red triggers for "VR THERMAL" in the limits-window after a while under heavy load like stress tests on an undervolted I7-9750H with increased PL1 limit (45 to 60w). I can also briefly spot this during the short turbo boost time window. CPU temps are well within range and even across the cores (high 70s in the most intensive modern games). As to be expected, I see no classic thermal throttling at all.

    I'm guessing, but just guessing, that vr thermal points to volt regulators and that there might be poor contact between the heatsink and some of these. Or that I'm simply pushing things beyond the limitations of the cooling solution. The heatsink is one of the typical shared ones and GPU temps are very comfortable due to the gimped max wattage of max-q RTX cards. But, before I try to investigate and strip things down, it would be a good thing to know if I'm actually on the right track re the volt regulators ;)
     
  4. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox BGA Filth-Hating Elitist

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    Be sure you have this box checked and the RwDrv.sys file in the ThrottleStop folder. It won't fix a thermal problem, but it will help with the current and power limit nonsense. Does HWiNFO64 give you any clues as to how hot other components are getting? It could be the core temps are OK, but something else is about to go up in smoke. What system are you having these issues with? It certainly could be an inadequate thermal management solution is causing it. It could also be goofed up firmware causing some problems.
    upload_2019-11-11_6-57-49.png
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
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  5. M4cr0s

    M4cr0s Notebook Consultant

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    Hey! Thanks for your reply!

    It's a rebranded barebone, basically a stock Clevo P970RN "17.3 medium slim type device, with the 9750h, RTX2080 max-q, 16 x 2 gb RAM, two nvme drives and one sata SSD. All sensor readings I am able to pull through different apps seems to be within reasonable limits and fairly equal. Chassis gets hot in certain places as is to be expected when it's so thin. Run it propped up for gaming and other heavy tasks. Also repasted CPU/GPU, but left the stock pads over the other components. I use Obsidian control station and fan control to get balanced speeds for more normal use.

    The device runs fairly good so far (had it a few days only), had a black screen reboot crash which I think was because of to heavy-handed uv on CPU cache. CPU core seems to be able to take loads and loads of uv like reported with some 8750h's. Seeing some confusingly inconsistent behavior though, on the uv's and TS Bench errors/no errors. Cannot get it to crash or throw errors no matter what I do in Prime or Aida64 stability test. One day it'll take no matter what uv and pass TS Bench long multi/single with no errors endlessly. The next day it'll error out like crazy.

    I have done the RwDrv.sys thing and I am able to adjust PL1 limit, but PL2 seems partially locked, I can lower it, but it won't pull more than around 70w even if I up it. So I think "Disable and lock..." is working?

    Here's a screenie from Hwinfo showing the limits it's hitting, in particular IA/GT VR Thermal Alert.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox BGA Filth-Hating Elitist

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    Howdy. I can see the thermal alerts are there, but do you see an actual corresponding temperature for the GT (Intel iGPU), IA or Ring VRMs? Curios if the alert is false or accurate based on whether or not the corresponding thermals are out of scope. If the temps are not high, the firmware could be configured to trip an alert (and trigger throttling) at a temperature that is lower than it should be. If that is the case, ThrottleStop might not be able to address that kind of firmware engineering error. If the temps are, in fact, too high then the throttling is helping protect the system from damage.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
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  7. unclewebb

    unclewebb ThrottleStop Author

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    Poor cooling of your voltage regulator seems to be the root cause of your throttling problem. I think Limit Reasons reports this throttling reason. Open it up and see if something lights up in red. Does this happen immediately under heavy load or does it take a while? When using Limit Reasons, exit HWiNFO.

    Here is why I like it when people post lots of screenshots.

    [​IMG]

    The reported max multis are missing for cores 5 and 6. Programming on my 4 core CPU does have some limitations. Minor bugs like this are inevitable.
     
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  8. M4cr0s

    M4cr0s Notebook Consultant

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    @unclewebb & @Mr. Fox

    Thanks for your input, much appreciated. The various temperature readings for the CPU package and IA/GT cores are at max 78-80 under stresstesting. An important detail though, is that I never get these limit triggers during normal use as in modern games. Nothing seems to put that high consistent strain on the CPU.

    I need to dismantle this thing and see what I can figure out and perhaps modify/improve. Hmm. Where can I find non-conductive thermal glue and fix up the whole thing with whatever copper I have lying around? ;)
     
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  9. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox BGA Filth-Hating Elitist

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    This is one of the better thermal adhesives: https://www.amazon.com/Arctic-Silver-Premium-Adhesive-ASTA-7G/dp/B0087X7262 and it is electrically conductive. The ceramic type (same brand) probably is not, but it also does not transfer heat as effectively.

    If you shield surrounding surfaces with Kapton tape prior to applying it that should avoid any shorting of components. It will also prevent the adhesive from getting stuck to surfaces you don't want it stuck to. A good example is putting Kapton tape around the die of a PCH chip if you want to permanently glue a copper heat sink to the PCH die.

    The non-conductive (electrically) adhesives are generally not very good at thermal conductivity. I did a lot of searching at one point and none of the thermal adhesives are fantastic at thermal conductivity, including those that are electrically conductive. But, for gluing copper heat sinks onto components that don't get super crazy hot and will benefit from a piece of copper being added for passive cooling, they are good enough to get the job done.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
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  10. M4cr0s

    M4cr0s Notebook Consultant

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    Good info! I remembered that AS had a thermal adhesive from way back in "the old days" when I was torturing Athlons and Durons, but wasn't sure it still existed. Impossible to source nationally though, but found some on eBay. Could get useful for other projects as well. I do want to put some shims on my NVMEs and something on the PCH too.

    Had a closer look at the mobo and just from looking at the cooling pads bulging out there seems to be good contact mostly, albeit poor coverage a couple of places. Hard to say if it makes any difference, I don't know much about all these little thingies. I might try to either cut some off the original heatsink, or jam or rig something in under it, at least temporary, to see if it makes any difference.

    This is the CPU portion of the combined heathsink. Power plug is right next to it on the left. I'll cut some copper shims and see if I can work something reliable out.

    [​IMG]
     
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