The Ongoing Disasters of the EPIC Games Store

Discussion in 'Gaming (Software and Graphics Cards)' started by hmscott, Feb 3, 2019.

  1. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    7,079
    Messages:
    20,412
    Likes Received:
    25,193
    Trophy Points:
    931
    Sadly Shenmue 3 seems to be going the worst so far, no Steam keys - Epic Only - and No Refunds! After looking at all of the backer levels, with amazingly high levels of investment - well beyond the simple cost of the game, I don't think this is going to go well in the long run for backers. Been a fan myself since my Sega Dreamcast version, but wasn't a backer, although I saw it start up back in 2015 at the time it wasn't of interest - I think I saw all of the "goodies" and thought better of getting involved. Glad to see it almost made it on it's own without Epic, too bad it got sucked in by Deep Silver.

    EPIC WON’T STOP | Shenmue 3 Exclusive, NO REFUNDS & POACHED Valve Game | + 31 GAME PC E3 Breakdown
    Bellular News
    Published on Jun 11, 2019
    The Epic Sponsored PC Gaming Show was refreshing game focused, giving us lots to cover, but also revealing Epics attempt to Snipe Auto Chess from Valve, as well as the Shenmue 3 situation - yes, another Kickstarted game has been gobbled up. All that, and loads of games, coming up.
     
    cj_miranda23 and NuclearLizard like this.
  2. saturnotaku

    saturnotaku Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    4,138
    Messages:
    7,602
    Likes Received:
    3,112
    Trophy Points:
    431
    At the time the Kicstarter ended, the average average backer pledge was more than $80. I personally put up more than $200 for physical PS4 and PC versions on top of in-game unlocks and a t-shirt. At the very least, I can change my reward to a second PS4 copy that I can sell.

    A theory I've read says that Epic must have thrown a fortune of money at Deep Silver for this, and they took it because the game is unlikely to sell very well at retail since the fanbase already "pre-ordered" it via the Kickstarter. This makes a degree of sense, but at the same time, they've completely incinerated all the good will that has been a part of the fanbase for nearly two decades. Maybe Ys Net didn't have a choice in the matter, but they will suffer the consequences.

    Now this is still my favorite video game franchise of all time. In the extremely unlikely event that a fourth installment gets the green light and is done through Kickstarter, I will back it, but only for the bare minimum to secure a copy.
     
    hmscott likes this.
  3. ryzeki

    ryzeki Super Moderator Super Moderator

    Reputations:
    6,512
    Messages:
    6,379
    Likes Received:
    3,981
    Trophy Points:
    431
    Yeah, the sad part is that they did the deal to turn a profit on this instance, but might have burned out their opportunity at a continuation.
     
    toughasnails, saturnotaku and hmscott like this.
  4. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    7,079
    Messages:
    20,412
    Likes Received:
    25,193
    Trophy Points:
    931
    This review of the granduer and disappointment of Shenmue Dreamcast, brought home all the reasons I didn't follow up and join the Kickstarter in the first place.

    The slowness of the pace, the difficulty of finding or following clues and direction in the game, and finally the timing element tied to the game time of day with events needed to progress happening only once a day.

    If you missed the time you needed to "let the clock run out till another day" in the game, this being not as often as you might think but when it happens it brings about a certain kind of frustration that was purposful but I can understand why it's not appreciated by most players.

    Then there are the localization to English being --- limited --- and the seemingly conflicting words vs actions which turns out to have been developer misunderstandings of the directions given by their boss Yu Suzuki.

    This all was a lot to get through, but knowing it was a blockbuster development ($46M?), coupled with it being the killer game for Sega Dreamcast helped.

    That was until it became clear that Shenmue 1 was only part of the story, a rather sparse one at that, and that there were 15 more parts of the 16 part story...

    So, is Shenmue III part 3 of the story? With 12 more parts left to tell the whole story?

    The Tragic History of Shenmue
    Super Eyepatch Wolf
    Published on Jun 12, 2019
    A long time ago, Sega made Shenmue, a weird forklift simulator, and some people didn’t like it, BUT I DID


    Not sure I'll miss Shenmue III if it stays on EGS and doesn't get put into full release...

    Given Shenmue's arguably tragic history coupled with heroic levels of effort and resource expenditures, the payout being taken from EGS seems almost inevitable.

    Even with $7M in raised funds doesn't come close to the Shenmue 1 $46M budget, and although I doubt EGS made up that difference, the endless consumption of resources by Yu Suzuki for this series is enabled by such windfall's.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
  5. saturnotaku

    saturnotaku Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    4,138
    Messages:
    7,602
    Likes Received:
    3,112
    Trophy Points:
    431
    The very slow, methodical pacing of the OG Shenmue was a deliberate design decision by Yu Suzuki because he wanted players to become truly immersed in the world. While it worked well for his home Japanese audience, it didn't so much for gamers in the West. This situation was rectified in Shenmue II with the ability to fast forward time until the next story trigger. I wish they would have brought this to the first game when it was re-released last year.

    The $46 million figure is also not entirely accurate because it encompassed the unreleased Sega Saturn version of the game, which was quite a ways into development before it was moved to the Dreamcast. It also incorporates some of Shenmue II. The actual cost for the first game that was released on the Dreamcast is closer to $20-$23 million. Still not a small chunk of change, especially for the late 1990s, but nowhere near the $46-$70 million that have been widely reported.

    The Shenmue saga was designed to be 15-16 acts spread over the course of seven games. The two games that were released were basically the first five acts, well more like four and half since the last part of Shenmue II is not very long and almost entirely story/conversation driven.

    Who can forget Peter Moore stabbing fans in the back when he jumped ship to Microsoft from Sega and announced that Shenmue II would be an Xbox exclusive? It was so bad that Gamestop of all places imported European Dreamcast copies (which were subtitled in English) that they bundled with a boot disc so the game could be played on a North American Dreamcast.
     
    hmscott likes this.
  6. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    7,079
    Messages:
    20,412
    Likes Received:
    25,193
    Trophy Points:
    931
    Thanks for the deep background, I'd heard a range for the costs, and picked the lower value. Subtracting costs for unfinished unreleased content makes sense, even so it shows that Yu's accustomed to a lot of cash and resources at his command. I am not surprised he jumped at the ability to increase his resources through EGS, that is if he even had a vote in it given that Deep Silver was involved.

    I don't think we've heard from Yu yet on the subject of what happened and who made the decisions?

    Shenmue 3 is exclusive to the Epic Games Store, gets a new trailer (updated)
    https://www.pcgamer.com/shenmue-3-is-coming-to-the-epic-games-store-gets-a-new-trailer/

    "...Creator Yu Suzuki appeared on stage at the PC Gaming Show briefly to thank fans and introduce the new trailer, but didn't address this new development. "
     
  7. saturnotaku

    saturnotaku Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    4,138
    Messages:
    7,602
    Likes Received:
    3,112
    Trophy Points:
    431
    Shenmue was originally conceived as Virtua Fighter RPG, but Yu Suzuki had a different vision. Sega was not risk-averse, so they give him the green light to change it to the game as we know it. Suzuki was basically Sega's Shigeru Miyamoto but with even more creative freedom.

    From what I understand, Suzuki was approached by other publishers during Shenmue III's development, but they wanted him to alter the game in some fundamental way. Deep Silver must have given him the autonomy he wanted to pursue his vision as he saw fit, with the condition that they have exclusive control over publishing, marketing, and distribution. We need to remember the EGS didn't exist either at the time of the Kickstarter or when Ys Net signed on with Deep Silver. Further, Suzuki has had a good relationship with the fan community. As such, I truly believe he had little to no say in this decision. Hopefully once the game is out, someone will spill the tea as to exactly what went down.
     
    hmscott likes this.
  8. NuclearLizard

    NuclearLizard Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    121
    Messages:
    780
    Likes Received:
    643
    Trophy Points:
    106
    The game pass for Windows Live service is up and running in beta.

    So far it works ok, I can buy most if not all the games on the Windows store through it.

    Metro is on it if you have game pass.

    Sent from my LM-Q710.FGN using Tapatalk
     
  9. saturnotaku

    saturnotaku Notebook Nobel Laureate

    Reputations:
    4,138
    Messages:
    7,602
    Likes Received:
    3,112
    Trophy Points:
    431
    Can you purchase Metro if you have the pass?
     
  10. NuclearLizard

    NuclearLizard Notebook Deity

    Reputations:
    121
    Messages:
    780
    Likes Received:
    643
    Trophy Points:
    106
    If you have the pass you have metro until such a file the pass expires.

    Sent from my LM-Q710.FGN using Tapatalk
     

Share This Page