The Ongoing Disasters of the EPIC Games Store

Discussion in 'Gaming (Software and Graphics Cards)' started by hmscott, Feb 3, 2019.

  1. JRE84

    JRE84 Notebook Deity

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    Yeah...epic should be for the gamers by the gamers ..and take a more ambiguous approach...if they did that I would have no problem...ea is a good example where I dont mind using steam and ea origin side by side...and as for ambiguous look at uplay
     
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  2. NuclearLizard

    NuclearLizard Notebook Deity

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    Even EA has more features than epic. Lol even the one where I can load the important part of my games and download the rest in the background as I play.

    Most of my animosity towards EA comes from their bad way of building games.if they went back to making decent games I would be swayed.

    Epic....well they kinda lost at every turn and are making things worse not just in their own ecosystem but every other one around it.

    Sent from my LM-Q710.FGN using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2019
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  3. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Devs Who Refuse To Consider Epic Exclusivity Offers
    YongYea
    Published on May 8, 2019
    SOURCE: https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/com...


    Jack W 10 hours ago
    "Oh wow, the exclusivity deals only benefit the higher ups??? Color me surprised"

    Paul M 12 hours ago (edited)
    "Developer: "it's really the higher ups at the company that benefit from these exclusivity deals." Randy Pitchford: *checks $12 million already in bank account with avaricious grin. "Borderlands 3 will also be epic store exclusive, to benefit the players somehow""

    Brett Yacyshen 9 hours ago
    "Wait, independent developers are denying Epic's scummy deal and turning down potential hundreds of thousand or even millions of dollars because they know what the players want and respect it?

    Epic: "Hur Dur, we no understand?""

    A Happy Iguana
    10 hours ago
    "Once again Indie devs are better than AAA devs."

    Anton Shields 12 hours ago
    "This is a great video because it allows us to support people who actually care about the consumer."

    Referenced in the video are threads and corrections and further continuations - what happens when a developer makes a public statement against Epic's policies and how they aren't interested in entering into an Epic deal.
    https://steamcommunity.com/app/671440/discussions/0/1651043320657573992/?ctp=1

    dynastystar May 4 @ 3:09pm
    "Thanks for declining epic! (read developer reply for a clarification) third-party paid exclusivity deals are a cancer on the gaming industry, and I just caught wind of the fact that the developers of this game declined Epic when they were approached for an exclusivity deal. Game looks fun too so I will consider picking it up when I can."

    Alex, Master Penguin [developer] May 5 @ 1:04am
    "Ok, to kill this topic because it kept me battling legal since last night, this is the only thing I'll say, and I really hope it's acceptable as a closure for the thread:

    Again, thanks for all the kind words about the game and my stance as a developer. However, I want to clarify my comments as they have been taken out of context and I don’t want to come across as in-genuine.

    My personal stance on the matter is that Epic’s model of exclusivity, and the politics that surround it, is something that doesn’t appeal me. I was never actually contacted by anyone at Epic and I was speaking in a wider context about deals that are offered to developers and not a contractual agreement that was offered to me personally. You can see this if you read the whole conversation (that admittedly spans hours), and not just the two sentences taken out of context.

    To be clear: I was talking of the deals (opportunities) they tend to provide, not a possible collaboration proposal they offered. I can see how this can be misinterpreted, and I infinitely apologise for the confusion; it was never my intention to mislead anybody.

    In short, Rise of Industry is available on multiple platforms as that is what a personally believe is the right way forward as an indie developer."

    Ardorphes Merimadia May 5 @ 1:27am
    "Thanks for being clear with people and even if they didn't propose and offer the fact you wouldn't take it means a lot to gamers in general.

    This isn't my kind of game but honestly man i respect you for keeping your wits about you and deciding if it did come to that, that you would respect the customers :)"

    Alex, Master Penguin [developer] May 5 @ 1:32am
    "Infinite thanks for your understanding. I was afraid it would turn this against me. I am so happy you guys are here. Honestly, I'm scared ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ if this issue gets even more exposure. People love drama :("
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
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  4. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Outer Wilds becomes another Epic Games Store PC exclusive and some backers are not happy
    "I would [have] preferred them asking for more money rather th[a]n timed exclusivity."
    Vikki Blake, 12 May 2019
    https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...e-pc-exclusive-and-some-backers-are-not-happy

    "..."I understand the publisher made this deal and not the dev team, and I understand money is a driving force behind the decision," said one unhappy backer on reddit. "However, I feel this is unethical for crowdfunding campaigns. I didn't want to support the game so I could play it months after release on the platform the campaign originally promoted. If I was told my contribution meant I could play the game "eventually", I would not have pledged."

    "I really do not want to refund. Honestly, I would of (sic) preferred them asking for more money, rather then (sic) timed exclusivity," added another. "Which, by the way, they didn't even specify how long it would be either. I can't believe I have to wait another six months or year. To me, this feels like a real kick in the teeth to backers. I was promised a steam key when I backed the game and will have to wait even longer to get what I was promised during the campaign."

    As others have said, however, "we're planning to" doesn't automatically translate to "we are going to", and "EGS barely existed if not was inexistant (sic) at the time, no wonder plans can change. Game dev is expensive, is (sic) that is what they needed to get enough money to pay their devs and release the game, no problem here."

    We've reached out to both Epic and Mobius for comment and will update as and when we hear back."

    These Epic failures continue to remind developers they need to amend their publisher agreements to get first right of refusal for deals publishers make - not only to stop these egregious insults to their fans and gamers, but to make sure they benefit from the deals themselves, outside of the publishers taking advantage of the contract for their own greedy needs.

    At least work into the stipulations that the publisher must fulfill delivery to the promised outlets - the ones that funded and supported the development through $ and pre-release positioning in their ecosystems.

    Good people don't think of these things, we assume that honor is transferred through our contracts through others, but this doesn't always happen so it needs to be spelled out and contractually bound. Even the simplest things need to be ELI5 in contracts and agreements where someone else is acting on your behalf.

    Another good game gets delayed until 2020. :)

    Comments

    josephbrown 13 hours ago
    "Whilst I'm all for competition because it can generate a healthy, fair environment for all involved, Epic bulldozing their way into the market and attempting to aggressively strong arm customers into buying games via their client does not, contrary to belief, create said healthy, fair environment.

    Quite the opposite, just as we see here. Backers are right to be upset that they now have to wait several months or more to receive a game (a game they put money into) via a platform of their choice. Competition creates choice and this is not what is happening here. What is happening is Epic and the publishers they snare are holding PC gamers to ransom. "Buy with us or go without for up to a year".

    I also find it particularly bewildering that a company with millions of dollars at their disposal, and who have had plenty of time to study the likes of Steam and GoG and as such see what customers expect from a store front, had the temerity to release such a half-assed client as the Epic Store."

    ambershee 13 hours ago
    "@josephbrown I feel the bigger problem is that with crowdfunded games like these, customers have *already* put down their money for the product - only to be told it isn't going to be sold to them how they expected. Linux and Mac gamers are left particularly short as this implies they won't get a version at all until it hits Steam."

    josephbrown 12 hours ago
    "Epic absolutely have the right, I don't dispute that, but as someone who also games on PC (as well as consoles) I have the absolute right not to play ball. Epic, along with any developer/publisher that goes down this route, can, quite frankly, get lost from hereon in. Won't make a difference in the bigger picture, true, but on a personal level I'm content in the knowledge that I don't or ever will support Epic's aggressive strong arming and that developers won't see a penny from me."

    melnificent9 hours ago
    "@stefanheisenberg As has been established it's the PUBLISHERS getting the higher cut with none passed to the actual Devs."

    djarcas 6 hours ago
    "@melnificent Only by devs who haven't got a clue how to negotiate a contract. Ditto any dev who says "Oh. this is a publisher decision". Either they are incompetent, or liars..."

    Epic Store Timed Exclusive Confirmed
    Submitted 2 days ago * by daear
    https://www.reddit.com/r/outerwilds/comments/bn4jfe/epic_store_timed_exclusive_confirmed/

    "As of update #72 from the Outer Wilds team, the game will be a timed exclusive for Xbox One and PC via Epic Games store (source). Other platforms will be "coming later", and the team promises their goal is to "bring the game to your preferred platform as quickly as possible".

    I have requested a refund for my pledge directly from Fig. I don't know if they will grant it, seeing as how it was made in 2015. You can do the same by filling out the form: Fig.co pledge request refund.

    I understand the publisher made this deal and not the dev team, and I understand money is a driving force behind the decision. However, I feel this is unethical for crowdfunding campaigns.

    I didn't want to support the game so I could play it months after release on the platform the campaign originally promoted. If I was told my contribution meant I could play the game "eventually", I would not have pledged.

    I do not wish to support the Epic Store at this time (it's feature incomplete, it's a potential privacy risk), and unfortunately, this means I can't support the Outer Wilds team, as much as I believe in the project and am excited to see how far it has come."

    StickiStickman 20 points 2 days ago
    "Honestly, this just kinda ruined the game for me. Have people crowdfund your game and then make it an timed exclusive, what a dick move.

    What's even worse is all the radio silence for MONTHS. People were already speculating too ..."

    For those that keep making apologies and excuse for Epic's behavior, Epic will get around to you soon enough, eventually Epic will screw over something you were hoping to get how you wanted to get it, and then you'll join the growing /r/****epic crowd. (Page Not Found - you have to replace the **** 4 letters in the URL yourself, the auto-censor mucks with "bad" words in the URL now too).

    This is a new low, even for Epic
    submitted 12 hours ago by hairy-beary - 105 comments

    Create4Life 309 points 11 hours ago*
    "If I would have pledged for this game I would be fuming right now.

    Pledging money to a crowdfunding and being one of the last people that get to play the game because they decided to release their game on a storefront that does not support one of the platforms they allegedly try to support? No thanks. Supporting anti consumer practices? No, "EPIC" you."

    Verzik_Vitur 5 points 4 days ago
    "I love that there's a forum just for "EPIC" talking Epic. I thought it was just some dumb "hashtag" people were sharing until I clicked on a link to here. "EPIC" Epic, and "EPIC" Tim Swiney!"

    The Outer Wilds Developer deleted my Epic Games Store prediction Thread a month ago.
    submitted 12 hours ago * by OnkelJupp - 244 comments
    https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/bnqnme/the_outer_wilds_developer_deleted_my_epic_games/

    "There are always some signs if a game comes out exclusively on the Epic Games Store. It usually begins with the developers not doing any community updates anymore and changing the Release Date to TBD. The same thing happened with The Outer Wilds a few weeks ago and since the Epic Games Store was launched in December there was also an Outer Wilds Store Page up.

    So I made a thread in the Steam Community Hub in March with the title: “The Outer Worlds will probably be an Epic Games Store exclusive”. After only a few comments from people who didn’t really believe it they deleted the thread without any comments.

    There is a chance that more Threads were deleted and everything looks like this was a decision made a while ago.

    Here is some proof since you can’t visit a deleted thread:
    https://abload.de/img/92f0225e-46b6-4a3e-9iqjs0.jpeg
    https://abload.de/img/9c7df79e-f0bf-4bdf-b38k91.jpeg
    https://abload.de/img/9c6a8314-756b-4df7-8ytj5r.jpeg

    Edit: The same signs were also shown right before Control and The Outer Worlds were announced as Epic Exclusive. Currently Rune is a pretty good Epic Exclusive contender since they don't do community updates on Steam anymore and they announced to skip Early Acces because they got a lot of money (Steam still shows it as Early Access Game)."
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
  5. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    This is a very creative way to do something under-handed, not sure what yet - not enough info - but somehow Tencent / CCCP is gonna come out on top. :)

    Tencent shuts down PUBG Mobile in China for patriotic alternative
    Tencent failed to win approval from the Chinese authorities to monetize the game
    By James Vincent May 8, 2019, 6:09am EDT
    https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/8/18536564/pubg-mobile-china-tencent-dropped-monetization

    PUBG Mobile shut down in China in favor of blood-free clone
    Submitted 5 days ago by SolitaryEgg
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/co...bile_shut_down_in_china_in_favor_of/?sort=new

    huthuthike2 12 points 5 days ago*
    "... Tencent has purchased the rights to be the sole reseller/service provider of PUBG in China. The agreement allows Tencent to make localized customizations which they built two versions.

    Both versions bear the English name PUBG but their Chinese names are different. They are officially "beta testing" both for a year or so. During this period you can play but can not buy skins with real money.

    The news is about bringing "beta testing" phase to an end, and make it commercially available. Apparently the final version was the one that is further customized with micro payment enabled. I don't know how much of the writings in the OP article was speculation, and how much is confirmed, since the release version is not yet available.

    Look, if you want to blame Tencent, at least get your facts right:

    "Following the Chinese publication deal for the Windows version, Tencent Games and PUBG Corporation additionally announced that they were planning on releasing two mobile versions based on the game in the country.[73][74] The first, PUBG: Exhilarating Battlefield, is an abridged version of the original game, and was developed by Lightspeed & Quantum Studio, an internal division of Tencent Games.[75] The second, PUBG: Army Attack, includes more arcade-style elements, including action taking place on warships, and was developed by Tencent's Timi Studio."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayerUnknown's_Battlegrounds

    PUBG mobile was developed by Tencent, by the way. Only one version of the mobile games is available outside of China."

    msixtwofiveGalaxy S8+ 0 points 5 days ago
    "Tencent has purchased the rights to be the sole reseller/service

    makes 15-35% on transactions

    magically supports clone

    clone pays 50-75% per transaction

    Tell me which you'd pick"

    satouru 38 points 5 days ago
    "Exactly. This is standard Chinese national business strategy:
    • Have a company make an exact clone of something, but with some 'non-ethical' stuff removed.
    • Have the government ban the foreign product because their product actually has this non-ethical stuff.
    • Have their huge market use their local product instead of the foreign one - make a lot of profits.
    They've been doing that for almost 10 years, and it's been working fantastically for them. They nuke any successful foreign product and make all those sweet profits flow towards a company close to the government."
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
  6. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Epic Games Store Very quietly launches in China,
    Arch Warhammer
    Published on May 15, 2019
    Epic Yesterday “ The way our competitors (Steam) operate overseas in China is actually illegal”
    Epic Today “Welcome to our new unsanctioned games store in china!”


    Epic SNAKES Crowdfunded Game & Makes Exclusive Removes Steam & Linux

    TheQuartering
    Published on May 14, 2019
    Look I am over the entire conversation with epic games store and it's exclusives. Seriously, I don't even care any more but open wilds a crowd funded game just totally hosed their backers and removed steam and linux support once they go epic cash.


    click trEsni 1 day ago
    "I'm not buying anything from the guys that infected the industry with fartwipe."

    ForeverLaxx 1 day ago
    "Steam has had long enough to strike back. They've done nothing." Why should Steam actually do anything? Epic keeps shooting themselves in the foot regarding customer good-will and a refusal to respect the consumer. Why does Steam have to step in when the enemy is so effective at destroying themselves?"

    AdamantMovies 1 day ago
    "Honestly, Steam really does not need to do anything. They can sit back, relax and laugh their ass off at Epic committing suicide."
     
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  7. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    A nice list of games coming out in 2020... :)

    A compiled list of all titles exclusive to the EPIC store
    submitted 3 days ago * by Last_Snowbender
    https://www.reddit.com/r/****epic/comments/bojuzt/a_compiled_list_of_all_titles_exclusive_to_the/
    [note the censor system edits out the bad word in the subreddit name, so you'll need to put it back in for the URL to work]

    "Hey guys,

    I've compiled a list of all games exclusive to the epic game store so you know what games to avoid. I've also added a reason if I could find one (Outer Worlds being exclusive is not the fault of Obsidian, for example). Doesn't mean you should buy it if there is a reason, but just an explanation.

    I think I got most of it, if not everything. If I missed something, let me know and I'll add it.

    Title Duration Reason Relevant sources"

    The list is likely to be updated over time in the article, so please go there for the current version...

    Publishers Pull Their Games From Epic's Store During Its Big Sale
    Nathan Grayson, Yesterday 8:30pm
    https://kotaku.com/publishers-pull-their-games-from-epics-store-during-its-1834828248

    "Earlier today, Epic once again took a page from Steam’s book and announced a “mega sale” that includes both percentage discounts and an additional $10 off every game priced $14.99 or higher on the Epic Games Store. It seemed to be smooth sailing for the sale, but then two major games suddenly vanished from the store.
    Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2, the upcoming action RPG, disappeared first, and nobody was quite sure what to make of it. It was briefly available for a discounted price, but then suddenly, it was gone. Trying to access the game’s store page currently returns a 404 error. An Epic representative toldKotaku that Vampire: The Masquerade publisher Paradox chose at the last second—or after the last second, technically—to not participate in the sale.

    “If a developer or publisher chooses to not participate in our sales, we will honor that decision,” the Epic rep said in an email. “Paradox Interactive has chosen to not participate in the Epic Mega Sale and the game has been temporarily removed from sale. If you’ve purchased Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2 during the period when the discount did apply at the time of check out, Epic will honor that price.”

    Shortly after Vampire exploded into a figurative cloud of bats, Epic director of publishing strategy Sergey Galyonkin made a similar comment on Russian siteDTF, which the Epic representative confirmed was accurate. A little later, Galyonkin made another comment on the same site, saying that he initially thought Paradox was aware of how the sale would affect its games, but “after a little investigation, it turned out that I was wrong.”

    Paradox would not go into specifics about why the removal happened when it did, but a representative pointed me to a thread that included Galyonkin’s comments. The publisher also provided Kotaku with a statement.

    “We are in discussion with Epic regarding the temporary removal of Vampire: the Masquerade - Bloodlines 2 from the Epic Game Store,” read the statement. “The game will return to the store soon! Any purchases made while the game was discounted during the Epic Mega Sale will be honored and no Masquerade violations will be assessed.”

    The other game that was pulled was space station survival sim Oxygen Not Included, the Epic Games Store page for which also gives visitors a 404 error right now. Developer and publisher Klei Entertainment has yet to comment on why this happened. Kotaku reached out to Klei for more information, but it has not yet responded.

    pointed to regional pricing differences that would’ve led to impractically large discounts on an unreleased game in some territories, as well.

    Epic’s bouncing baby store has had other first-time mega-sale-related hiccups, as well. Hades, the early access roguelite from the makers of Bastion and Pyre, was briefly priced incorrectly at $6.99, and developer Supergiant corrected it with a confusing increase not only to the game’s sale price (which is now $14.99), but also its base price, which was $19.99 but is now $24.99.

    “We apologize for any confusion this caused and hope customers who got the deal enjoy the game,” Supergiant said on Twitter. “The corrected sale price is still a 25% discount off of the original price point.”

    The developer also addressed the increased base price, which some users viewed as an attempt to sell the game for a higher amount than a 25 percent discount would otherwise imply.

    “We raised the list price based on continued improvements and additions we’ve made so far in Early Access,” Supergiant said. “We think this price point reflects the game’s current value. Customers can get the game at a lower-than-ever price for several weeks.”

    This is not at all an uncommon practice with early access games, but it’s rubbed some fans the wrong way in light of a pre-price-increase comment from Supergiant earlier today in which the developer said it would “announce something like that well in advance” when asked about a Hades price increase on Twitter.

    [Updated: 5/16/2019, 9:50 PM ET - Supergiant has brought Hades’ base price back down to $19.99, where it will stay for the duration of the sale. However, it’s no longer offering a 25 percent discount on top of Epic’s discount, meaning that Hades is currently priced at $9.99. “After the sale is over, on June 14, we will be raising the game’s retail price to $24.99,” the developer said in a statement posted in its Discord. “We had intended to raise the retail price of the game soon, but made the decision rashly as part of the sale—we didn’t provide advance notice to our customers, despite previously stating we would do so. That was our mistake, and we sincerely apologize. To all our players, thank you for your patience and understanding around this.”]
    It is, to an extent, understandable that the Epic Games Store wouldn’t nail running a store-wide sale on its first try. After all, it took Valve ages to get Steam sales right, and even then, Steam still regularly goes down at the outset of big seasonal dealstravaganzas. But this comes on top of Epic’s barebones feature set, other assorted errors, and unpopular penchant for snapping up exclusives. Watching a company with all the money in the world stumble through the process of launching a store doesn’t inspire much faith in that store’s future prospects, even if the roadmap ahead looks significantly more acceptable than the pothole-ridden road we’re on right now.

    Check the website, and the subreddit below for updates:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/****epic/comments/bpmvmr/publishers_pull_their_games_from_epics_store/
    [note the censor system edits out the bad word in the subreddit name, so you'll need to put it back in for the URL to work]

    Droid8Apple 44 points 8 hours ago
    "Imagine being Epic.

    Sweeney: "Awe, but guys! Steam is having a sale!" ...

    Literally everyone except Sweeney: "No!" ...

    Sweeney: "I HATE YOU! You can't tell me what to do you're not my dad!"(starts chopping prices without talking to a single dev because ego > formalities)"

    Hallitsijan 30 points 8 hours ago
    "Putting a pre order game in a sale like this? What has Sweeney been smoking. That's a good way to kill off any future sales of the game."

    Spacecowboycarl 14 points 6 hours ago*
    "Metro has barely been out three months and it’s on sale for $35.
    (Edit) Also you can get Redux for the low price of $5 and sell your soul or go to steam and get it for $7. I feel like epic set the price lower purposely."

    unsinnsschmierer 11 points 6 hours ago
    "Paradox are selling the preorders themselves at their own store. If Epic is selling it cheaper the people who bought it directly from paradox or from steam will refund it and buy from EGS. It's sick that Epic did this without agreeing the terms with paradox."
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
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  8. cucubits

    cucubits Notebook Evangelist

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    This thread makes me sad. It's a reminder that I still can't play Metro (properly updated) :(

    FYI, the reddit links at the beginning of the post don't seem to work. Is it just for me?
    Edit: nevermind, just noticed the censor thing messes up the links.
     
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  9. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    The blue link is also edited by the autoCensor, so you need to edit the **** out and replace it with the "bad word" for the URL to work, as noted in my post:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/****epic/comments/bojuzt/a_compiled_list_of_all_titles_exclusive_to_the/
    [note the censor system edits out the bad word in the subreddit name, so you'll need to put it back in for the URL to work]

    For now we'll wipe the tears from our eyes, it won't be long, lots of bugs will be fixed, the price will drop - and a Steam sale will drop the price even more - then you'll be ready to join the tight online group of stalwart individuals with the "right stuff" to stand up for what's decent and right in the world, and blow up some Russian Mutants, in 2020. :)
     
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  10. JRE84

    JRE84 Notebook Deity

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    Hmscott that literally took me ten minutes to read, however every second was worth it..you sir are a genius, world needs more of you.
     
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