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Discussion in 'MSI Reviews & Owners' Lounges' started by Spartan, Nov 12, 2018.

  1. Quokka

    Quokka Notebook Consultant

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    Picked up my GE75 2080 yesterday (to replace my almost 4 year old GT80). My GE75 is stock from MSI, no reseller repaste or anything.

    I'm tending to run games with the refresh set to 144hz, but with a frame cap of as close to 1/2 (72 as possible). This is to try and reduce unnecessary load on CPU/GPU. From Dragon Centre, I'm running the default "current" profile (SHIFT set to Sport, auto fans).

    So far very impressed, but I have a few questions / observations I'm hoping you guys can help me with:

    - GPU temps seem fine (max GPU temp observed so far when gaming is approx 75c).

    - Division 2 benchmark (1080p, all graphics settings max), reports a solid 70fps, and GPU/CPU loads of 55% each. This would suggest that I have plenty of power to spare.

    - However when actually playing Division 2, HWiNFO reports max CPU usage of 100%, and max CPU temp of approx 94-95, with thermal throttle reported. I don't notice this thermal throttle when gaming.

    - Is this CPU thermal throttling anything to worry about, or can/should I do something about it?

    - When plugging in headphone under windows, I get a pop-up asking me what device I've plugged in. Until I select something from the pop-up, the sounds is not routed via the headphones. It does this every time. This means I cannot plug in headphones mid-game, as I can't click the popup. Anyone noticed this and have a workaround?

    - From the Win10, I changed the battery slider to "maximum performance" (it was in the middle "better performance"). Does this actually affect anything, and should I put it back?

    - Can anyone tell me the differences between the various Dragon Center Shift modes? (Sport, Comfort & ECO are the 3 options I have). I literally cannot find any explanation not even on MSI's website lol. Does sport mode for example do any overclocking? For example, will setting it to Comfort instead of Sport impact performance in games?

    Thanks in advance for the help & advice!

    P.S - I would prefer not to start undervolting / tweaking etc unless absolutely necessary. This is my primary (only) laptop, so I don't want to risk stability.
     
  2. Quokka

    Quokka Notebook Consultant

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    I have the same panel, and notice the same effect. From what I understand, the ms refresh is MUCH higher (worse) if you run this panel at 60hz. Instead I'm running at 144hz native, then limiting game to as close to 1/12 (72) as possible. This way no ghosting.
     
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  3. zendik

    zendik Notebook Guru

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    Finally had some time to do some tweaking on my 2080 model from MicroCenter. I mentioned earlier in the thread I picked it up for $2399 w/ 32GB of RAM and 2x512GB SSDs.

    I got the Chi Mei screen and have no complaints. The UFO test looks great to my eyes. There's barely any backlight bleed or glow at all. It's a vast improvement over my PowerSpec 1510 (MicroCenter rebranded Clevo P650HS-G chassis), which has some pretty egregious bleeding. This GE75 looks perfect in comparison.

    The build quality and keyboard quality also demolishes the Powerspec. There are a couple of keys on the keyboard that have colors that are just slightly off if the keyboard is set to a solid color (the I and O keys look a bit darker than the rest), but that's pretty nitpicky and not very noticeable. Someone a bit more OCD about that sort of thing might find it more annoying.

    I checked out the new PowerSpec machines at MicroCenter (1520 and 1720) and, yes, they're way cheaper, but in handling them you can see/feel why that is.

    The SSDs are Kingston and came configured in RAID 0. Haven't benched them, don't see the point. I have a couple of 1TB Intel 660p's I'll probably replace them with when I take the noisy, useless spinning HDD out and replace it with an SSD.

    I started with a -0.125mv undervolt and that was fine, so I kept creeping up and got to -0.181mv, which is where I stopped. It's been running stable for two days that way, including lots of web surfing, listening to music, gaming, and running lots of benchmarks and moderate stress testing. Super disappointed, since I was hoping for at least -0.200mv. :wacko:

    Actually, I didn't try anything past -180, so who knows. At any rate, it seems stable so far at idle and under varying degrees of load.

    GPU is currently at +125/500. Haven't started working on the curve yet really. Honestly, I'm satisfied enough with the performance as it is that I might not even bother, except that it'll nag at me knowing it could maybe be just a little bit better.

    Stock paste, with the undervolt applied, all-core turbo capped at 37, and the back of the laptop elevated so it can breathe, I'm seeing temps in the mid 60's on less demanding games and benchmarks, creeping into the low 70's while playing FC5. This is with an ambient temp of 72F/22C, fans at auto using Silent Option with a fan curve about 10% more aggressive than the default.

    The fans don't tend to ramp up much at all, really. If I hit the cooler boost button the difference in noise output is huge.

    Fire Strike graphics score the way it's set up now is about 26,700, and it stays pretty cool and quiet even on the stock paste, so I'm pretty happy. I created a Throttlestop profile that disables turbo that I use when I'm just surfing the web and stuff, and for the most part it runs silent.
     
  4. Doc Fox

    Doc Fox Notebook Geek

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    Firstly, undervolting isn't really a risk. I would call it almost a necessity. Because it is done via software that only loads after you boot into windows there are many ways to fix any issues that may arise, not that it is likely to come to that. You should undervolt.

    Your GPU is probably loaded to 55% because of the frame cap you placed on it. it means it can roughly push twice as many frames as the cap you set.

    The audio jack detection is part of the realtek control center. Deleting that might work, I personally didn't mind it so didn't troubleshoot it.

    Your CPU thermal throttling is something to worry about because you are losing performance for no reason. Undervolting is the safest and easiest way to get around it. Make sure you are not blocking the intakes at the bottom or any of the air outlets. You can buy a laptop stand with some external fans. The most dramatic results will be with a repaste of course. Also the Bios tweaks regarding AC/DC load lines would help your temperatures.

    The battery slider will not effect your maximum performance, it essentially clocks your cpu higher even when not under load, so you don't have to wait for your cpu to 'wind up' when you need the performance. But in modern CPUs this happens nearly instantly anyways. In games your CPU will always run as fast as it can.

    Dragon Center Shift modes, you are missing 1 profile called Turbo, which is only available when plugged in. If you don't have that you should troubleshoot around that. Under the turbo profile you can overclock your GPU and VRAM. The other profiles simply slow down your computer in every way. In echo your computer will 'feel' slower. It will increase your battery time noticeably though. Dragon Center doesn't have many supporters. Some claim it causes worse performance and recommend deleting it. I did not experience this myself, but deleted it anyways.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
  5. Quokka

    Quokka Notebook Consultant

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    Thanks for your quick response above :)

    Do you - or anyone else - have a clear step by step guide for undervolting, and a recommend daily (not extreme) undervolt setting to use that will be stable?
     
  6. zendik

    zendik Notebook Guru

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    No one can tell you what setting is appropriate for your CPU. Each one is unique. Mine seems to be rock stable at -0.180mv, but yours might flake out at -0.100 or even less if you're super unlucky. Mine might yet flake out. It's only been a couple of days, so while I'm hopeful, I don't fully trust it yet.

    As for a guide, Google one of the many excellent existing Throttlestop guides and you should be all set. There really is no risk involved unless you're foolish enough to have important unsaved files open while you are working on your undervolt.

    One thing to be mindful of: don't assume that just because you can stress test, benchmark, and play games at a given undervolt that you're stable. It's often when your processor is idling or working at moderate load at reduced clocks that an undervolt will bite you.

    It really is just trial and error and each CPU is uniquely capable. You might get super lucky, super unlucky, or fall somewhere in the middle, around -0.125mv or so.

    -0.80mv or -0.100mv or so is a good place to start. Then test. Use your laptop the way you normally would and see how it goes. Run some benchmarks, surf the web, listen to music, whatever. If it all seems fine, go up a little more. Repeat, repeat, repeat. When it eventually crashes, back off a little bit, say from -0.150 to -0.145 or -0.140 and try that. You might be done at that point, it might be all good, or it might crash again at some point, and then you can back off a little bit more and you'll probably be all set.

    Just be aware while you're actively testing stability that a crash could happen at literally any time, when you'd least expect it, and plan accordingly when it comes to saving your files and stuff.
     
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  7. Rycorlin

    Rycorlin Notebook Consultant

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    Definitely good advice. Also for another example I'm only able to go up to -140. When I go up to 145 I start crashing randomly. So that was my limit. But I have seen people go up to -180. Also this is without the bios changes. After that the number will be much smaller for reasons listed in the guide
     
  8. Quokka

    Quokka Notebook Consultant

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    Would it be enough to simply use throttlestop to drop the turbo multiplier slightly, or do you recommend doing that PLUS an undervolt?
     
  9. zendik

    zendik Notebook Guru

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    If you want your CPU to work as efficiently as possible an undervolt is a necessity.

    CPUs are manufactured in bulk. It would take Intel forever to test each of them individually and have them ask for their own appropriate individual voltage. Some CPUs, even CPUs manufactured side by side, need way more or way less voltage than others.

    For the sake of simplicity and because it would be egregiously expensive and time consuming to do otherwise, Intel figures out how much voltage it takes to run a certain lot of CPUs stably in general. That is to say, the very best CPUs are being fed just as much voltage as the CPUs that are borderline rejects.

    That's why it's a lottery: You might get a golden sample that is an engineering marvel or you might get one of the ones that are duds and just barely made the QC cutoff. But in general even the duds can be helped at least a little bit, because Intel will always err on the side of more voltage and greater absolute stability.

    When you undervolt all you're actually doing is giving your CPU's individual power requirements the time and attention Intel isn't able to give it. If you have a CPU (as I appear to have lucked into) that can run stably at super low voltages, then pumping it full of heat-generating current it doesn't need is wasteful and counterproductive.

    For a lot of us, it's as much about the idea of efficiency and tuning as about the results, I think, but the results really do stand on their own. It would bug the crap out of me to think my CPU is boiling hot and throttling (which also drags down GPU performance and makes the machine louder and shortens its lifespan in multiple ways for no good reason) because I couldn't be bothered to take a few hours to help it work to its true potential.

    If you're going to have a sports car, don't you want the engine to purr?
     
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  10. Quokka

    Quokka Notebook Consultant

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    Cheers chaps, I really appreciate your time and advice. I've downloaded throttlestop and will have a play around with it later this week when I have the time. Setting turbo to 3.6, and initial undervolt of -0.80 seems like a good place to start from what I've been reading on the guides you linked.

    Also, what is the risk of having throttlestop start automatically on boot? If I set an unstable undervolt, do I risk getting trapped as a result of the auto load, or in reality is that a non-issue?

    And anything else you recommend doing apart from the turbo reduction and undervolt?
     
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