Tesla Model 3... Anyone?

Discussion in 'Motorized Vehicles' started by KPot2004, Feb 21, 2016.

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  1. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

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    The outside looks very nice, if a little Mazda3-ish.

    The interior is disgusting IMO. People calling this a luxury car comparable to a Lexus IS or Mercedes C-Class seem to have been hit by Elon Musk's Jobs-esque reality distortion field. And the lack of HVAC vents is awfully form-over-substance.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

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    GM is dealing with this in a very reasonable way, by contracting with a company that specializes in battery production (LG Chem) instead of making the batteries in-house.
     
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  3. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    That's really ceding the "Crown Jewels", profits, and economies of scale to another entity - unless GM plans on buying them at some point - maybe a condition of the contract :)

    It's much smarter to own the battery "mine", and the raw resources that go in to building the batteries.

    I have to wonder at GM's commitment to Electric/Battery long term if they aren't building their own Batteries.
     
  4. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

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    Most of the internal components of a laptop or smartphone aren't made by Dell or Apple; they're made by component manufacturers. That improves economies of scale, not undermines it. How expensive would a MacBook be if Apple made its own screens, fans, SSDs, RAM, etc?
     
  5. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    It's all about the battery, everything else is a commonly available commodity.

    Well, ok, the software and control systems are equal to the battery value as well. :cool:

    It's all about being able to create *and* produce. Without owning the battery production facilities, in a fast growing market segment, anyone with their hands out looking for battery build capacity is going to the end of the line.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2016
  6. MidnightSun

    MidnightSun Emodicon

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    GM's core competency is not in building batteries, so it makes a lot of sense that they aren't making their own batteries from scratch in-house. What has Tesla stockholders (myself included) and analysts most worried is that the company keeps biting off more than it can chew. Developing their own batteries is ambitious, and we'll have to see what the results are in the years ahead.

    A nice example of a similar situation is Apple and the iPhone. When Apple first developed the iPhone, most internal components were made by contracted suppliers. As Apple built up volume, they began taking more and more interest in vertical integration to 1) ensure a stable supply chain (probably the most important aspect) and 2) cut out the profits of "middlemen" suppliers. To do that, they began developing competencies in other fields, ie application processor design. Nowadays, the design of the Apple A-series processors is done entirely in-house, with contracting to fabs (ie TSMC, Samsung Semiconductor) to actually do the manufacturing.
     
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  7. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Apple’s Hugest Reveal This Week: Those Crazy New Batteries
    http://www.wired.com/2015/03/apples-new-battery-tech/
     
  8. MidnightSun

    MidnightSun Emodicon

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    Well, that's another good example of Apple expanding its vertical integration and increasing its control over every aspect of its devices (allowing for better and more efficient devices than its less-integrated rivals), after securing its core competencies. Still, Apple doesn't actually build its own batteries even as it gets more involved in the actual design, that's still contracted out:

    http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20150526PD201.html
     
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  9. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    It's a matter of quantity.

    The difference between a laptop, iphone, etc battery needs and a car battery needs makes it a much different problem of scale.

    The Tesla S 85kWh battery "module" weighs 1200lbs / 544kg, that's a lot of "iphone" batteries.
    http://www.roperld.com/science/TeslaModelS.htm

    There is only so much build capacity and materials available in the pipeline to build such a huge density of battery required for each car.

    Millions of new cars each year is the goal, for several companies, there just isn't enough build capacity to contract out. You also need capacity for replacement batteries as they cycle out, so recycling facilities will also be required.

    Owning the battery factories and the materials pipeline through to the raw materials will be a huge advantage.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2016
  10. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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