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Should I switch out my 485M to the 6970M?

Discussion in 'Sager and Clevo' started by meyer0095, Apr 5, 2011.

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  1. DGDXGDG

    DGDXGDG Notebook Deity

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    nvidia & amd both "optimize"(cheat) in driver
    but nvidia mostly commit in aa/af which cant easily figure out, amd commit in graphic very big........i prefer nvidia:D

    same system/game setting but different card/driver:
    gts450
    [​IMG]
    hd5770 see the missing grass
    [​IMG]
    gts450
    [​IMG]
    hd5770 see the missing shadow
    [​IMG]
     
  2. chewietobbacca

    chewietobbacca Notebook Evangelist

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    Not a fanboy? Might want to reexamine yourself on that one. Because yeah, that must be why Nvidia is the one that has had numerous recalls / dying GPUs (8 and 9 series anyone?) on the mobility sector and on the desktop side, their drivers recently killed the GTX 590 :rolleyes:

    AMD has had problems with drivers, but it hasn't been the one flat out killing cards in recent times - and the numbers speak for themsleves. AMD went from being at 20-25% market share at 2007 to now where it's nearly 40-50% of the GPU market. Nvidia has hadn't such a great track record in recent years


    Exactly right. The 6970M isn't a budget selection - it's that the 485M's pricing is so absurd. You're paying a significant portion of money for a 5% gain at most, and if you turn on all the features the 485M has, you lose any performance advantage. And at 1920x1080, in benches, the 6970M actually climbs up to match the 485M.

    Think about desktop cards. Even the top flagship cards don't cost nearly as big a premium for 5% more performance (at least, since the 8800 Ultra of 2007).

    I wouldn't call the 6970M the budget choice, I'd call it the smart bang for your buck choice
     
  3. mountainlifter_k

    mountainlifter_k Notebook Consultant

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    Please cite your source on those numbers, i'm interested in reading more.
    I cannot simply take your word on those numbers. Cite your source sir.

    Valid point. 3D will cut frame rates in half. But that happens on ANY card, desktop or laptop, AMD or NVidia. What i mean is that, if the clevo with the 6970 had a 3D out, you couldn't even argue this point.

    Ill even say you can drop mentioning that 5% performance improvement. All benches coming out now say that the 6970 has the lead ever so slightly.

    But will PhysX drop frames as bad as 3D? I have so far not seen anyone post a MAFIA II video running on the 485M. We cannot presume frame rates will drop by half. I won't try to guess by how much it will drop, because I like to work with facts.

    I hope these are the only two other features that you are talking about. And i hope me mentioning "PhysX" doesn't get you angry again. :D Lets take it easy eh!
     
  4. mountainlifter_k

    mountainlifter_k Notebook Consultant

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    I'm afraid we (or only me) lost you there.
     
  5. DGDXGDG

    DGDXGDG Notebook Deity

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    ok here:(
    [​IMG]
     
  6. DGDXGDG

    DGDXGDG Notebook Deity

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    some more goole translated comments believe it or not:D

    More exaggerated is the same as new World of Warcraft character, the screen will run World of Warcraft for a while, then clearly see the screen graphics 5770 From time to time will be slightly slower, is there significant LAG, but FPS .... but did not see fall, my colleagues, "suspect" it is because AMD's AI will automatically drop in FPS, the repeat copy paste the screen, this way the number of sheets is enough FPS, but the picture is LAG, you think about it, every 30 frames instead of stealing three terms with the copy, so you can increase performance 10% yeah. But such arguments are made in other cases users may also happen, so I can not prove the fact is, I can only say that obviously does amd graphics lag, but nv did not, and this continent with the most recent response to a lot of Internet cafes (cafe) users, AMD opened not long after the machine would require a machine to use NV may have some sort of graphics related to it.

    ATI've done it before, but, rather exaggerated the recent reform, even after the driver 10.2 so that users can not turn off AI, that no matter what you run, he will help you "optimize", as to what Stolen, sorry ~ it is not you can decide, perhaps material change bad, maybe something less .................
     
  7. DGDXGDG

    DGDXGDG Notebook Deity

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  8. RKG72MP

    RKG72MP Notebook Geek

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    Wow, 15 pages! I have some questions and I'm sorry if they already been asked.

    1.)Upgradeable! Can the 485M be upgraded to the next series GPU chip? As far as I know, this is unknown territory so far, but if so, then this alone might be worthy of the $250 because of the future proofing feature. If you go ATi/AMD, you can't come back to nvidia & vise versa, so keep that in mind.

    2.) Folding! If you are a folder (F@H for example) then the 485M is your ticket to more PPD.

    3.) Thermals! How hot does one chip get over the other. Hotter chips might not be so great for your notebooks internal ambient temps. Do we have max temps on the 6970 yet?

    4.) Overclocking ability! We know the 485M will overclock to 660Mhz on most units, but what about the 6970? How flexible is it when pushed to the limits?
     
  9. chewietobbacca

    chewietobbacca Notebook Evangelist

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    Says who? Because who the hell made this one up? You can upgrade from ATI/AMD to Nvidia and vice versa with the 8150/8170. There is no restriction here

    2) Yes, it's well known folding@home is better w/ Nvidia hardware, but if you're worried about keeping your notebook longevity (seeing as how you asked question #3), i wouldn't f@h on a notebook at all unless you're planning on using a notebook cooler. Besides, if you really do actually fold and want to do so, spend the $250 on a desktop GPU and run it on the desktop, and get far more performance

    3) Anandtech's reviews say its fine, there haven't been reports of it doing bad w/ the Alienware's either and no one's reported otherwise on it doing bad compared w/ the 485M. And if you are planning on Folding, then the 485M is far more likely to tax your heat on your notebook than the 6970M

    4) People have clocked it high, check out the Alienware M17xR3 forums

    Again, the fact of the matter is, the 485M's only bonus features are the only difference between it and the 6970M. If you do not fold/CUDA/physX, the 485M's $250 price tag is hefty for < 5% difference in performance.
     
  10. RKG72MP

    RKG72MP Notebook Geek

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    {quote}Says who? Because who the hell made this one up? You can upgrade from ATI/AMD to Nvidia and vice versa with the 8150/8170. There is no restriction here{quote}

    1.)O.K, my bad, but...chewietobbacca...can you please back that statement up though? This is interesting in itself if true. Are you saying the socket on the motherboard of the 8170 can take either chip?

    2 +3.)Yes, I have a desktop w/ SLi and I do fold often. I'm not worried if my GPU is sitting around 70*c, but 80*c and I get concerned. If I planned on folding on my new toy, I'd definitely have a notebook cooler to keep internal ambient temps from reckon havoc on my HDD/SDD & memory.

    4.)I noticed that after I already posted the above, quite impressive. Seems the 6970 can overclock quite well, but again, the temps start to get out of hand past 700mhz. Now, I'm on the fence! damit! that $200 dollar savings is quite tempting to say the least. What I really want is something that will play the current modern games and last me longer then the damn X700 I purchased back in 05. I have had nvidia in all my desktops, and ATi in all my notebooks and neither have giving me grief outside of gaming.

    One last thing that people forget about with all these benchmarks comparing the two chips. Not which one gives use the highest peak Frames in games, but which ones gives use the "average FPS" in games is the key selling point. I would love to see detail graphs of all these games showing min-max-& average, that's the proper way to really see who is king of the hill.
     
  11. chewietobbacca

    chewietobbacca Notebook Evangelist

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    The NP8150/8170 both use, IIRC, MXM 3.0 Type B, meaning that they can be upgraded with any of the GPUs that fit that standard. Indeed, when you buy the 8150/8170, the builder/reseller doesn't replace the motherboard - they simply put in the new GPU. Nvidia and AMD will both fit.

    If you're looking at other models though that aren't upgradeable, you'll be stuck w/ the GPU you choose since some of those are soldered directly into the motherboard or have other things. Not so w/ the higher end Clevo's. Check the 8150/8170 threads, some people have gone back and forth before

    You should definitely look at the min FPS because, after all, what good is 60 fps average if one card dips down to 20 fps but spikes up to 100 fps every other second (hence 60 average), versus a card that hits 55-65 all the time? The 20 to 120 fps card is unplayable, the 55-65 one will feel smooth as butter
     
  12. Harleyquin07

    Harleyquin07 &#12456;&#12511;&#12516;

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    For what it's worth, my order for the 8170 is going to be with the 485m for reasons other than price/performance. If I had an alternative, I would have plumped for the ATI card but my main consideration for the new laptop is gaming capability which the 485m should provide at some cost.
     
  13. Shaden

    Shaden Notebook Deity

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    Ok, wow what a thread, some very heated responses and interesting defenses.

    I have some questions though, when really sitting down to buy on a budget. I play mostly FPS and RtS games, Call of Duty, SC 2, ... looking forward to Diablo 3 and maybe Deus X.

    I am going to be getting external 3D, I love 3d.

    Although early stuff seemed to downplay the AMD 3d, it seems that it should work fine. When you really read up on it.

    Physics ... ok ... I see the benefit BUT ... please read my final calculation.

    I can get a sager p170hm with a single 485m or ... Alienware m18x with dual 6970s ... everything else equal. My real question then, is which is better all considered here. Does Physics on a single 485 really beat out Dual 6970ms ?

    Please advise...
     
  14. coldcase

    coldcase Notebook Consultant

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    a 485 can't beat 2 X 6970 in crossfire.
     
  15. ksdakaflq

    ksdakaflq Notebook Enthusiast

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    I've been looking at these two gpu's as well and have been reading this thread with interest. Something I haven't seen mentioned as a consideration, which is relevant in my own situation, is that I don't use my machine exclusively for gaming. Some of my other applications (CAD stuff) works better with nVidia and possibly won't be stable at all with AMD/ATI. Therefore, having the 485 option for better quality gaming while still maintaining compatibility with other programs is certainly worth a couple hundred extra.
     
  16. Harleyquin07

    Harleyquin07 &#12456;&#12511;&#12516;

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    If you use CUDA as part of your CAD work, then the 485m is your only choice since the 6970m does not use a proprietary Nvidia technology out of the box.
     
  17. AsusS

    AsusS Notebook Evangelist

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    6970 hands down beats the 485 easy cooling is better and the card features new designs to ensure life expectancy.
     
  18. Harleyquin07

    Harleyquin07 &#12456;&#12511;&#12516;

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    Please elaborate more, broad sweeping statements about card superiority based on dubious cooling advantages and undefined new designs don't win plaudits for credibility.

    Read the Anandtech review of the 6970m a few months ago? Power consumption for the two cards is very close and very high because of their performance. Whether or not the 6970m outlasts the 485m is something that cannot be confirmed at present since both cards were only released this calendar year.
     
  19. skydrome1

    skydrome1 Notebook Consultant

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    I'm not so sure about the "any card will fit" thing there...

    I read from one of the websites (Mucro.Asia) that I was considering to purchase from and some other forum posts that the NP8170 uses a different cooling system for AMD and NVIDIA options, so if you get the 6970M you can't install a 485M or vice versa (though I doubt anyone will want to given how close these 2 cards are performance wise). They didn't mention anything about the NP8150 though...
     
  20. Tirenz

    Tirenz Notebook Evangelist

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