SE-SSDs: Micron M600 vs SanDisk X300s

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by davidricardo86, Dec 26, 2015.

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  1. davidricardo86

    davidricardo86 Notebook Deity

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    I tried searching for more information on these two SE-SSDs but failed to find relevant information. Therefore, I chose to create this thread.

    I'm currently considering one of these two enterprise/OEM level SE-SSDs and I'm leaning more towards the SanDisk X300s for the following reasons. 1.) the included WAVE SELF-ENCRYPTING DRIVE MANAGEMENT software, 2.) I'd prefer a cooler running SE-SSD, 3.) I really like how the SanDisk Extreme Pro performs but it lacks self-encryption.

    I currently own 4 Micron M510 128GB M.2 SSDs (non-SE) that normally operate at 55 degrees Celsius, even at idle. For comparison, my Samsung 470 128GB and 830 256GB SSDs normally operate around 35 degrees Celsius which is a huge difference. At one point I owned and sold my Crucial M500 960GB which also operated around 55 degrees Celsius. I'm starting to think most Micron/Crucial SSDs operating at or around 55 degrees Celsius, even during idle, is normal. Even if it is "normal," its too hot for my liking. I'd like to see how hot Micron/Crucial SSDs get when they're pushed to their limit (I've yet to test this, I'll have to figure out a way to test it).

    At a minimum I am after an enterprise/OEM level, 2.5" SATA form factor, 256GB capacity and 25-30% OP. I had also considered a consumer level Crucial MX200 but settled on enterprise/OEM level due to stricter validation processes usually required by said enterprises and OEMs.

    I have already read Anandtech's Micron M600 Review and SanDisk X300s Review to help me reach a decision but would appreciate some input.

    Which psuedo SLC cache solution is considered best? Micron's Dynamic Write Acceleration or SanDisk's nCache?

    The Micron M600 is capable of using Momentum Cache via Storage Executive like my M510 does (I really like MC). So, does SanDisk provide a similar RAM caching solution in its SSD Dashboard?

    Who provides the best overall software and hardware experience?
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2015
  2. tilleroftheearth

    tilleroftheearth Wisdom listens quietly...

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    The self encrypting features must be very, very important to you?

    Why not just add the software you're looking at to the SanDisk Extreme Pro that you are already considering for performance reasons? Is that even possible?

    I agree 100% with you on the temperatures; 55C at idle is too hot and an indication of bad design (purposely or not...) and/or wrong implementation of the tech used... Not only will such designs throttle the storage subsystem prematurely, but they may contribute to throttling the rest of the platform too (cpu/gpu/memory/chipsets) if that excess heat isn't addressed and vented properly.

    Btw; the link you provide to the Wave software has already failed my internal test; it is managed by the cloud and cloud=no security in any sense of the word.

    Even with a fully compliant SE drive (with or without cloud management functions), when connected online; the security is comprised at that point and each and every time thereafter. If security/privacy is truly important - do not record it on any medium (even with paper and pen).

    Momentum Cache is available for Crucial/Micron drives (make sure you download and use the correct version for the drive(s) you have) and I highly recommend it too. But at this point, SanDisk does not make a comparable offering.

    As far as pseudo SLC? Unless your workloads are ALL bursty type scenarios, it is just a gimmick to put higher numbers on the retail boxes... especially for TLC 'junk' ssd's.

    See:
    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/adata-sp550-ssd,4296.html


    To me; pseudo SLC is an indication of a fundamental design problem in some currently offered SSD's- not a benefit in any way, shape or form.

    Hope the above helps a little (and hope someone comes in with a direct response to your SE related inquiries).
     
  3. Mr.Koala

    Mr.Koala Notebook Virtuoso

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    Use case?

    All Micron drives are hot at idle. The idle power draw is relatively high as well.

    Unless you encrypt the information before sending it to the cloud. (Most primitive form of trusted computing)
     
  4. TomJGX

    TomJGX I HATE BGA!

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    The Samsung 850 Pro has encryption and is MLC too... Should run cooler then M600 and is not TLC junk like the X300s...
     
  5. Raidriar

    Raidriar ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

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    What? My M600s idle at 32 and top out at 40 when copying large numbers of file. That doesn't seem hot to me.

    OP, I have the 128GB, 256GB, and 512GB M600s and they are FINE drives, really. It's my preferred drive for balance of features, price, performance, and reliability, and Momentum Cache actually WORKS, unlike RAPID bs.
     
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  6. tilleroftheearth

    tilleroftheearth Wisdom listens quietly...

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    Except that in this case, the cloud is what is used to configure your settings... uh, duh... (not you, the SE software).

    Which means that you've already been compromised, you just don't know when...
     
  7. TomJGX

    TomJGX I HATE BGA!

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    You must be the odd exception.. Most M500/550 and MX100's I've seen run much hotter than that...
     
  8. Raidriar

    Raidriar ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

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    Maybe it has something to do with the change in NAND memory size? MX100/M550 used 20nm dies, M600 uses 16nm. I just went to check my 256GB M600 in my M18x R1 under light duty/web browsing and it is at a cool 27 degC
     
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  9. tilleroftheearth

    tilleroftheearth Wisdom listens quietly...

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    While your R1 is a good sized platform and with better cooling than most notebooks, that is still a nice temp to see.

    If I had to guess, the smaller nand needs higher voltage and therefore higher temps to 'drive' properly, so what must have changed is something inherent in the firmware of these models.

     
  10. davidricardo86

    davidricardo86 Notebook Deity

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    1.) Yes, the self encrypting features are very important to me. Even though its not new technology, its new to me and I would like to learn about it and deploy it in my personal PCs now so that when I do encounter it in a job I will be knowledgeable in this subject matter.

    2.) The SanDisk Extreme Pro lacks hardware self encryption. However, paid or free software solutions are available such as Microsoft's BitLocker Drive Encryption which can be added to non-SE SSDs. As you may already know, software based encryption adds a bit of overhead to the host PC which results in a hit in performance. Therefore, I want to dabble with hardware based encryption first and that requires an SE-SSD. Both solutions have pros and cons, as most cases its a matter of picking the right tool for the job.

    3.) It can be managed locally too. While I appreciate the security concern recommendation, I'm not about to start memorizing all of my "top secret" data. That's not being realistic so I'll just take the risk. Shoot, up to this point I wasn't even the slightest concerned about storing my data on non-SE HDDs so I think I'll accept being a guinea pig and go forward with my little experiment.

    Anandtech SanDisk X300s Review
    4.) Momentum Cache is quite an advantage, its a shame SanDisk has not created their own solution. It is only available for OS boot drives correct?

    5.) So does having pseudo SLC even hurt anything? Isn't it better then to have it than to not have it at all? Because if it does in fact help in certain specific situations, then why wouldn't I want it on-board, even if its affects are only for short bursts? Also, doesn't Micron's dynamic pseudo SLC cache seem better than the static caches of its competitors?

    Anandtech Micron M600 Review
    1.) My use case? Probably not as demanding as tiller's that's for sure! lol I will be purchasing two SE-SSDs for two personal laptops Lenovo ThinkPad 11e. One will be a dedicated Windows environment, and the other a Linux environment. I'd be taking either of these with me wherever I go so if one was to be lost or stolen, I'd want my data on these portable PCs to be inaccessible to any prying eyes at the very least.

    2.) It does appear older Micron/Crucial SSDs run hot at idle and a high idle power draw is something I don't want in a laptop anyways.


    1.) The Samsung 850 Pro does seem like a beast in benchmarks but how does one go about controlling its self-encryption features? I'm unsure if its the best choice what with the recent issues Samsung has had with their current SSDs. I've ownd a 470 and an 830 for many years without any issues. New gen Samsung seems to be suffering from issues, including the M.2 form factors and TLC slowdowns. I haven't really kept up-to-date with Samsung SSDs so maybe I'm misunderstanding or just not well informed.

    2.) Everything online seems to indicate the SanDisk X300s is using SanDisk 2nd Gen 64Gbit 19nm MLC NAND. And for reference, the Micron M600 is using Micron 128Gbit 16nm MLC NAND. I will only buy MLC NAND SSDs at the moment, I don't trust TLC NAND.


    Thanks for confirming this! I was just about to ask if anyone had any firsthand experience with either the M600 or X300s. I was starting to wonder if the hot idle/high idle power consumption was more or less isolated to older M500, M510, M550 SSDs and not the newer M600. Its a huge relief to hear this as 32 degrees Celsius idle and 40 degress Celsius under load seems perfectly acceptable for my laptops.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2015
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