Samsung 2012 Series 7 Chronos (NP700Z3, NP700Z4 & NP700Z5 series) Owners Lounge

Discussion in 'Samsung' started by yknyong1, Dec 11, 2011.

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  1. Miguel86

    Miguel86 Notebook Enthusiast

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    That is strange, I always boot from USB3 (the USB2 has the mouse).

    I tried copying individual files on my PC, but it always fails, so I can only recover partitions or the disk (that is way till morning trying to resolve this ,because it takes 1H to restore the disk).

    Btw , the software I use is Paragon Backup & Recovery Free (I have a norton Ghost disk here, if I knew, I should have used that).

    I also tried without fixing MBR.
    Yesteday I restored the disk, maybe 4 or 5 times (because every time I tried USB Admin Tool , it would delete everything), because I was trying all the options.

    There is no problem in deleting all, I already backed everything important last week :) .

    edit:
    [​IMG]
    And yesterday I got the content of recovery (and windows tools, not in the image)
     
  2. Dannemand

    Dannemand Decidedly Moderate Super Moderator

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    OK, here is my suggested procedure.

    I cannot give 100% specifics on every detail because I rely on your eyes to tell me what happens on the screen. But try and follow it without any experimenting. If something unforeseen happens along the way, stop there and send me a PM before you continue (PMs will notify me by email).

    1) Make sure you have backups of the ORIGINAL files and folders from the following partitions: Windows RE tools, SAMSUNG_REC2 (the big Recovery Data partition) and SAMSUNG_REC (the Recovery Boot partition). Make sure you include hidden and system files. Keep the backups in separate folders on an external drive.

    If the imaging software you used originally to backup the entire drive allows you to extract files and folders (as opposed to merely restoring entire partitions), then that is the preferred way. I want to make sure we have THE ORIGINAL contents of those partitions, not whatever mix is there now after several restore attempts.

    If your imaging software only allows you to restore entire partitions, then do a complete restore of that image back to the Samsung HDD. After that use Parted Magic to make copies of the files and folders from those three partitions and save them on an external drive.

    I like Parted Magic myself, but because of the horror stories about Linux and UEFI I wouldn't normally recommend using it on recent Samsung models. However, you said you already used it successfully, so I guess it's OK.

    Parted Magic (or similar Live-CD) really is the easiest way to make these file and folder copies because the Recovery Partitions are readily accessible and you can simply select everything in the root of a partition and drag it to a backup folder on an external drive.

    You don't have to make backups of the other partitions. If my assumptions are correct, they should be created later by the Admin Tool and by the Recovery itself.

    2) Boot USB Admin Tool from a USB2 port (black). If your PC only has USB3 ports (blue) I guess that must work as well. But on mine with SRS5, booting Admin Tool from USB3 simply boots the Recovery itself instead of the Admin Tool.

    3) In Admin Tool, select the following and nothing else:

    Select Disk: Disk 0
    Disk Partitioning (Boot): Check
    Size of Recovery Boot Partition: 1.0GB
    Position: Last
    Disk Partitioning (Data): Check - Select Disk 0
    Size of Recovery Data Partition: 25.2GB
    Install Recovery Area: Check
    MBR Fix: UN-check
    Copy init image: UN-check
    Install Windows: UN-check (I think)
    Fix init date: UN-check

    Some of these options I am fully familiar with from SRS5; others are new to me, but I can easily deduct what they mean; a few I am uncertain of.

    It is important that we set the correct size for the Recovery Boot and Recovery Data partitions to match your original SAMSUNG_REC and SAMSUNG_REC2 partitions, respectively. The default 10GB for the Recovery Data Partition (SAMSUNG_REC2) is too small (I think you stumbled there once).

    Also, we select Position=Last for the Recovery Boot Partition because we want Windows RE tools to be the first partition on the drive and SAMSUNG_REC to be the last, and everything else in between.

    Copy init image is a great function that can be used in conjunction with the Backup Factory Image function in Recovery. This is actually the preferred way to backup and re-create Recovery Partitions -- but only when you have an Admin Tool created with your own Recovery. Yours was created on another PC and could be a slightly different version.

    Install Windows actually installs Windows 8, requiring you to have the Windows 8 DVD inserted. In this particular case, we only want to create the Recovery partitions (we'll restore Windows from Recovery later). Thus I suggest you UN-check this option. (Thank you, Miguel, for sending me this info.)

    Fix init date is used to change the Purchase Date you may have noticed in BIOS.

    In short, enter and check/UN-check the options I suggest here, then click Run.

    PLEASE snap some pictures for me as it does its thing :)

    Once it is finished, you should (hopefully) have a re-partitioned disk with working F4 and working Recovery Partitions -- but possibly containing the wrong version of the Recovery software -- and containing no Factory Image and no actual Windows.

    Close down Admin Tool when it is finished, turn off the PC and put aside the Admin Tool USB stick. I guess you could try F4, but I would rather you wait.

    4) Boot Parted Magic again and verify that your partition list looks similar to your original (the one you posted for me). Maybe the Windows partitions are there yet, maybe not. Please post the results for me :)

    5) Still in Parted Magic, copy back the file and folder contents you backed up in step (1) to partitions Windows RE tools, SAMSUNG_REC2 and SAMSUNG_REC.

    After it has finished, close down Parted Magic and turn off the PC.

    6) Now the magic moment: Try and F4 boot the Recovery: Similar to when you enter BIOS with F2, hit F4 2-3 times/sec starting almost immediately after Power On. If you miss, Power Off and try again. If F4 still doesn't work, there is another procedure we can try (more work :eek: )

    7) If you manage to boot Recovery, choose the Complete Restore (or whatever it is called in SRS6). Basically we want the most extensive Restore function available in there: Remember, we're now running the PROPER Recovery version for your PC model with all the original Recovery data; so we want it to re-build and overwrite as much as possible from that Admin Tool (which may have been a slightly different version).

    After this, see if you cannot boot Windows. You may have to re-enable SecureBoot in BIOS (please report back if you do).

    I know this looks massive because of all the detail I write; but the actual steps you have to take really are quite few. And it sounds like you've done them all before. We're just trying to get the right order and options this time.

    Look forward to hearing your results. Send me a PM so I'll get notified by email.
     
  3. Dannemand

    Dannemand Decidedly Moderate Super Moderator

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    @Miguel: I got a Plan B procedure for you here. This is a really good one, if I may say so :)

    (Context for others reading this: The procedure posted above did NOT restore the F4 link of Miguel's Recovery, most likely due to the fact that his USB Admin Tool had been created with a different a Samsung PC model, possibly having a different version).

    Instead of focusing on creating a new Recovery in order to establish a working F4, I found a way to add Samsung Recovery to the Win7 boot menu. Presumably you have fully intact Recovery Partitions, you just don't have working F4 (which is what happens when restoring image backups of Recovery Partitions). This way you can at least boot your Recovery and use the Complete Restore function to get the original Samsung Windows installation back.

    1) Do a complete restore of your Paragon disk image, in order to get your Recovery Partitions back to original state.

    (I know from your PM that you already did this step, and your Windows boots alright -- but of course F4 doesn't work. I merely include it here for completeness).

    2) Download NeoSmart EasyBCD (that was a link). There is a free, non-commercial version. I use version 2.2, which I believe is the latest. Install it, but don't run it yet.

    3) Use DISKPART to assign a drive letter to your Recovery Boot Partition (SAMSUNG_REC). These are the steps to assign drive letter R:

    3a) Use Start Menu - Run and enter DISKPART. Click Yes when User Account Control prompts you (because DISKPART can make changes to your disk).

    3b) Enter LIST VOLUME to show all your volumes. Notice which one is SAMSUNG_REC. On mine it's Volume 4 but it is probably Volume 6 on yours.

    3c) Enter SELECT VOLUME 6 (assuming 6 was the number of your SAMSUNG_REC volume).

    3d) Enter DETAIL PARTITION just to verify that you have the correct volume selected. It should have an asterisk ( * ) in front.

    3e) Enter ASSIGN LETTER=R (assuming you want drive letter R).

    3f) Enter EXIT to close DISKPART.

    This is what it looks like on mine (note on my PC SAMSUNG_REC is Volume 4):

    DISKPART Add Recovery Drive Letter.PNG

    Your Recovery Boot Partition should now have drive letter R. Open Computer (Explorer) to verify.

    4) With that Explorer window still open, go to the R:\sources folder and verify that it has a file called boot.wim.

    5) Assuming you found that R:\sources\boot.wim file, open EasyBCD (in the NeoSmart Start Menu group). On the Add New Entry tab, enter a new boot entry with the following settings:

    Portable/External Media: WinPE
    Type: WIM Image (Ramdisk)
    Name: Samsung Recovery
    Path: R:\sources\boot.wim

    Click Add Entry.

    Go to the Edit Boot Menu and make sure there is a Count down of at least three seconds to make a selection when booting.

    Click Save Settings.

    You can now close EasyBCD. This is what it looks like (except I have both Win7 and Win8):

    EasyBCD Add Recovery Entry.png
    EasyBCD Boot menu countdown.png

    6) Restart Windows. You should get a Boot menu where you can select Samsung Recovery. Hopefully your Recovery is now booting -- finally!

    7) Create a USB Admin Tool (like you've done before): [Ctrl]-[Alt]-[F10] to enter Management Mode, password secclx (SECCLX). This will now be a PROPER Admin Tool for your PC.

    7a) Still in Recovery, Backup Factory Image to an external drive (you'll have to back out from Management Mode).

    Having Admin Tool AND a backed up Factory Image (also called Initial Image) should make it much easier to re-create Recovery with working F4: You simply run Admin Tool as described in my last post, and check Copy init image before you click Run. That way you don't have to copy file and folder contents back and forth.

    In SRS5 the Initial Image had to be on a USB stick (it wouldn't take a USB hard drive). Hopefully they have improved that in SRS6.

    8) Otherwise, still in Recovery, use Complete Restore (or whatever it is called in SRS6) to get back to the original Samsung delivered Windows installation.

    Of course I have only tried this with my own SRS5 (again :eek: ) but I feel quite confident it should work on SRS6 as well.

    Note that the drive letter you assigned to your SAMSUNG_REC partition may disappear next time you boot Windows. But the Samsung Recovery entry in the boot menu should still work. Of course if you restore Windows to factory state, that menu boot and EasyBCD will will go away.

    I look forward to your results. Bedtime for me now!

    Update: Added step (7a) and a better way to re-partition/re-create Recovery with Admin Tool using a Factory Image Backup. I must have been very tired last night to forget that.
     
  4. Dannemand

    Dannemand Decidedly Moderate Super Moderator

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    I am very sorry I missed your post yesterday. It must have seemed rude to you, seeing how I was busily responding to Miguel. But I simply didn't notice it till now.

    By "disabling Flash" I meant Adobe Flash. Any website that has animated Flash ads running will increase power consumption (in other words, you pay to receive those ads ;) )

    I personally do NOT have Adobe Flash installed. I use Chrome which has a built-in Flash renderer (called PepperFlash). But I keep it disabled except when I actually need it (hardly ever). I have a bookmark to about : plugins on the Bookmarks Bar.

    There are also utilities that will automatically keep Flash disabled. Amazing how much effort the world is spending to keep this monster at bay!

    I really don't think you have to disable ATI/AMD as long as no apps are configured to use it. HwInfo's Summary screen will show you its status, and mine is completely dead when it isn't actually used.

    HWiNFO64 - AMD Idle.png

    But I guess you could try and disable the AMD under Display adapters in Device Manager. I never tried that, so no guarantees...
     
  5. Nausicaaa

    Nausicaaa Notebook Enthusiast

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    Its not problem, thanks for replying!

    Under GPU mine shows the same. I disabled it in Device Manager before, and it caused it to run a generic display, so I didn't have full resolution. I thought it was running the ATI one since I only disabled the ATI, but I think both the drivers are linke
     
  6. John Ratsey

    John Ratsey Moderately inquisitive Super Moderator

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    It should be possible it get down below 10W under light usage with a dim display. Light usage means a CPU utilisation (see Task Manager > Processes) of less than 5%. The Processes tab will also show you what is using the CPU. Use the Samsung Optimized or Power Saver power plan. Anything plugged into USB will use power and WiFi / Bluetooth also add to the power drain (with a weak signal needing more power).

    I use Firefox with FlashBlock and AdBlockPlus.

    John
     
  7. Miguel86

    Miguel86 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Just to give an update.

    Could not get Recovery to work using the Windows program or the F4 button.

    Also, the computer stopped restarting, it just shuts down, even in the Bios,saving the settings OR pressing ctrl+alt+del makes the computer shutdown instead of rebooting, and even when doing this, it shows a black screen for some seconds before shutting down.

    I don't know what caused this (Samsung update, did a bios update a few days ago), but I called Samsung to send to warranty, just to make sure.

    Thanks Dannemand for your stupendous help ;)
     
  8. Dannemand

    Dannemand Decidedly Moderate Super Moderator

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    Stupendous or stupid -- I think the jury is still out on that one, since we didn't manage to get your Recovery fixed or get F4 working again :D

    Thank you for that update, Miguel. I think getting the PC to Samsung Service was the right decisions at this point. With your latest reports (we exchanged some PMs) there was increasing evidence that other things were wrong beyond just the lost F4 link.

    Suspects are (1) a corrupt or failed BIOS update -- or just a BIOS fault; as demonstrated in several threads here, some BIOS updates on Ivy Bridge models (starting last fall) have been tricky. Or (2) your Paragon full image backup either isn't as "full" as it claims to be -- or doesn't restore correctly; how else could the PC behave so differently each time you restored the image?

    I have had great success myself with image backups using my 10 year old Terabyte software, and never experienced a failed image. EXCEPT when I used it to backup and restore the Recovery on my Samsung last summer and F4 failed. At least everything else worked. But it still took me a long time to figure out how to get that Recovery going again.

    So there is a clear lesson for all here to leave Recovery Partitions alone -- unless you're 1000% sure you'll NEVER mess up your PC and will NEVER need warranty service and will NEVER want to sell the PC. Or you know exactly how to backup and re-create that partition.

    Thanks again for working so patiently on this :)

    A side note to other tech savvy owners with GPT/SRS6 (and working Recoveries):

    I would love to get confirmation that adding Recovery to the Windows boot menu (as described in this post) works and boots SRS6 Recovery.

    I know it works for SRS5 -- and it's actually a great fallback if F4 goes poof. Much cleaner than the old Grub4Dos trick -- and it should work with GPT disks as well.

    Thank you in advance for any feedback on that.
     
  9. John Ratsey

    John Ratsey Moderately inquisitive Super Moderator

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    I do not believe that presence of the Recovery Partition is a requirement for warranty service. For people who have backup media for re-installation and other ways to backup their computer then functioning SRS and Recovery Partition is not needed and, if one only has a low capacity SSD, then the Recovery Partition probably has to go after making the alternative arrangements.

    John
     
  10. Dannemand

    Dannemand Decidedly Moderate Super Moderator

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    OK, admittedly I may have overstated that argument a bit :eek:

    What I meant was that Samsung Support may ask you to restore to factory in order in order to diagnose any problems. But you're right, I don't know that it is required for warranty service. And yes, on a 128GB SSD it's a lot of space to leave the Recovery there.

    I still think, though, that many people wipe their Recoveries too quickly -- without making necessary backups first -- who maybe should have left it alone. We're all used to doing that on new PC because we perform clean installs anyway. And Samsung doesn't include a warning saying Recovery cannot be backed up and restored using common imaging tools. But particular in these Win8/UEFI/GPT days, things are more complicated than they used to be, and it is easier to mess a PC up.

    Fortunately, SRS6 now has features that make Factory Image Backup much easier, and (as I understand) which allow restoring or cloning the factory installation onto an external drive. That's a huge step forward.
     
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