Ryzen vs i7 (Mainstream); Threadripper vs i9 (HEDT); X299 vs X399; Xeon vs Epyc

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by ajc9988, Jun 7, 2017.

  1. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    That's great news, more memory channels is a good thing and new memory channels can't be "downloaded" to upgrade and old motherboard. :)

    It's a tough choice, but AMD will continue to sell and support ThreadRipper 1/2 CPU's and motherboards.

    Adding a new motherboard generation now to get more memory channels is a tough choice, but I'm happy AMD did it.

    Hopefully the pricing of the ThreadRipper TR5(?) CPU / motherboards won't clip us for much more than the TR4 generation, that's what I am concerned about right now.

    It would be nice if we heard about TR5(?) before the 3950x releases, I'll wait to see the TR5(?) lineup CPU's and motherboards before deciding which to build for what purpose.

    If the TR5(?) lineup looks good, then I'll have to wait before recommending that until I see the release results and still wait a good 3 to 6 months before building - to make sure it's got everything sorted.

    TR580(?) and TR540(?), Exciting stuff. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
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  2. TANWare

    TANWare Just This Side of Senile, I think. Super Moderator

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    Even in the same article they are quoting the 9/5 reddit post. At the same time they admit it is just a revision of the same socket and might allow old chipsets but with out all the feature set. I would not jump in so fast with the doom and gloom for x399 owners yet.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
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  3. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    It might be possible to use the new CPU's with reduced memory channels in the old motherboard - if it's the same socket and those same pins aren't used for something else, but that would have required planning it out from the start - and I don't think that's been anticipated.

    I recall when AMD moved from DDR2 to DDR3 and you could put the same CPU in 2 different motherboards with support for either, but AMD telegraphed that feature well ahead of time.

    Of course we don't know, this could have been the plan all along and if so then there could be support for current TR4 motherboards.

    But, unlike the PCIE4.0 upgrade a memory upgrade - more channels with better performance in more applications - all applications if done right - would be more of a reason to upgrade to the new motherboard with more channels.

    Given that scenerio AMD might decide to forgo disappointing current owners with the comparison between their purchased CPU in their previous generation motherboard vs reviews / others results in the new motherboards.

    Tough choice, but sometimes you have to lead the industry rather than coddling to it.

    No wonder AMD hushed up on ThreadRipper and have been quiet except for confirming the line will continue. Too much to explain and describe in understandable form - their reasoning and the results - that would have been too distracting during the Ryzen 3 roll-out and would still be distracting up through the 3950x (3950 too?).

    I wonder if the ThreadRipper line might slide forward like the APU's being 1 generation lag behind Ryzen and Epyc moving forward?
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
  4. TANWare

    TANWare Just This Side of Senile, I think. Super Moderator

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    TR4 is supposed to be supported too 2020 and I can see where up to 32 cores would be ok as they can do that now. With the TR80 and WRX80 I can see where that is needed for 48 and 64 cores. I believe this is the reason for the 24 core release.

    1.) power profile and TDP should not be way over the original 180 watt.
    2.) Quad channel memory should be no more a constraint than dual channel on the 3900x
    3.) PCI-e 3.0 will not be as much a constraint.
    4. Easier for a CCX configuration to be compatible with x399.

    Etc., Etc., Etc.. Again do not count out x399, but maybe after this it will be dead in the water. I assume this may be true in the future of AM4 as well.
     
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  5. ajc9988

    ajc9988 Death by a thousand paper cuts

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    They do the one gen behind, no one will buy them. APUs are a LOW end product, comparatively. HEDT is HIGH END. If it lags a generation EVER, consider them opening the lane for Intel to take it back. Not going to happen. Also, it doesn't make sense for numerous other reasons. But it always comes out after Ryzen and Epyc to get the binned chips. So there will be a lag. But generational lag, no!
    Yeah, either they are going to go to all exclusive 8 channel memory and the traces don't exist for X399 support and they can't figure out pinning or not.

    Here's what likely will happen:

    1) an X399 compatible tr4 socket 24 and 32 core chips with only quad channel support (32 core is delayed because due to the boost issues, primarily due to voltages with mb MFRS and the algorithm issues, as those boost speeds can be reached through manual overclocking, they are taking the cherry 8 core chiplets to now use on the 3950X, which is why it is now delayed until TR launch and the 32 core disappears with the 16-core mainstream in it's place).

    2) the WR8 socket, or whatever it is called, has 8 memory channels supporting speed optimized 48 and 64 core Epyc CPUs. Straight forward. If you need more than 32 cores, buy the Epyc workstation platform.

    3) the TR8 motherboard and chips are for the Zen 3 based CPUs and will support the entire lineup. This will not be here until next year. It doesn't apply to Zen 2 at all. It will not support quad channel memory chips, will have no backwards compatibility, and the chips designed for it will not be compatible with X399 at all. It may be compatible with Epyc CPUs as well as the speed optimized Epyc CPUs. That depends on whether they put 64 or 128 PCIe lanes on the TR8 motherboard. The workstation version will have all 128 lanes, but they are locking down overclocking.

    That makes the most sense of all. Not chip shortages causing the 3950X delay, blah, blah, blah.

    The only question is whether they worked out the TR8 socket to have more than one generation of compatibility to support Zen 4 or beyond. They may even use it as a test for the new socket for Epyc coming in 2021. But that is my speculation. Why? Because that makes the most sense.
     
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  6. TANWare

    TANWare Just This Side of Senile, I think. Super Moderator

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    As it stands I can not use all of my 1950x as is. A 24 core would be perfect as it should produce close to 3900x performance for single core and close to 2x performance over the 1950x in CB-R15 over stock (if it scales 100% over the 3900x). While yes 32 or even 48 and 64 cores sounds nice at some point reduced clock rates will provide diminishing returns.
     
  7. ajc9988

    ajc9988 Death by a thousand paper cuts

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    Agreed. I was hoping they would do a 16-core TR for entry as dual channel memory isn't going to happen, nor dicing my PCIe lanes. Now I just have to hope they binned the 6-core chiplets well and hope for a price reduction from the prior generation.
     
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  8. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOK's Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on FILTHY

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  9. TANWare

    TANWare Just This Side of Senile, I think. Super Moderator

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    Sold and shipped by "Deals a Day" so it is outside vendors price gouging.
     
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  10. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    It's interesting, this article ends with:

    "In addition, AMD has never promised a certain longevity or compatibility of the socket TR4 for future generations."

    Is that true? I've seen AMD say 4 generations (or 4 years) on AM4, but no such statement for TR4...?

    "Mark Papermaster, AMD’s chief technology officer, confirmed the four-year lifespan in a conversation here at CES 2017 in Las Vegas, though he declined to discuss specifics."
    https://www.pcworld.com/article/315...hitecture-is-expected-to-last-four-years.html

    3rd generation of Ryzen Threadripper apparently requires new motherboards [German]
    Thursday, September 26, 2019 at 17:38 by Andreas Schilling
    https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.p...er-setzt-offenbar-neue-mainboards-voraus.html
     
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