Ryzen vs i7 (Mainstream); Threadripper vs i9 (HEDT); X299 vs X399; Xeon vs Epyc

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by ajc9988, Jun 7, 2017.

  1. ajc9988

    ajc9988 Death by a thousand paper cuts

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    OK, what needs fixed in Windows, specifically? What are you talking about being off in Windows, as I am having the low Integer and floating point.
    upload_2018-6-12_0-27-22.png
     
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  2. TANWare

    TANWare Just This Side of Senile, I think. Super Moderator

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    Ugh. This is a bad omen. No one yet has come up with what the problem is, M$ answer is to just reinstall Windows which does work, AT FIRST. Eventually though it WILL happen again. Constantly re-installing is not an option for me. So to my solution.

    I use Macrium Reflect, the free version is fine but I am paid. IOMMU must be disabled. Start with a fresh windows install with Macrium and Passmark, once the performance is back create a back up. Do a few updates and program installations and make sure the performance remains good then create another backup. I did this for about a total of a dozen backups. if performance gets lost restore from the good latest backup and continue on again (mine were done incrementally so I had all backups just incase).

    I keep my data all on a separate drive so there is not an issue there. a heads up here. This last time I apparently let it og to long and my 3 month old backup did not restore performance at first. I had to go to reset the system and all files. Then used the 3 month old Macrium image. I have all my user data backed up so that was not an issue.

    Hope this helps.

    Edit; I have seen a few posts elsewhere with Intel systems that have had this issue as well.

    Edit 2; This upsets me to no end as the first level tech will inevitably have the user to reinstall Windows and since this fixes it the problem is never resolved. It is never escalated and just written off.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
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  3. ajc9988

    ajc9988 Death by a thousand paper cuts

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    That is just All CAPS on M$ part.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 12, 2018
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  4. TANWare

    TANWare Just This Side of Senile, I think. Super Moderator

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    Yeah job security. They will all tell you that you did something and just reinstall Windows. No I didn't and I can show where it just all of a sudden happens for no apparent reason at all. It is something on their end.
     
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  5. ajc9988

    ajc9988 Death by a thousand paper cuts

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    So, looks like I'll need to dig out my copy of macrium. I stopped using it because it is **** on doing multi-boot setups, or at least was not working well with my multiple OS installs for backing up the OSes (basically, unless you booted and installed the software on the OS, which you wouldn't want to necessarily do on bench OSes, you backup the drive as just a drive and not windows, even if you select the proper hard drive sections with the boot sectors to back it up). But, looks like I'll have to dig out all of my keys again and re-install EVERYTHING, after backing up the current setup. I'm wondering if that is how you cut 3 minutes off of the render on Gooseberry and a couple other oddities. How does your ram score look on performance test?
     
  6. TANWare

    TANWare Just This Side of Senile, I think. Super Moderator

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    Well I use Macrium just for the C;\ drive, but I have a lot of drives. I got rid of using Grub by booting to the C:\ drive from bios each time, then F11 on reboot when I want Linux.

    C:\ = Windows OS, 500GB EVO 960
    D:\ = User Data, 500 GB EVO 960
    F:\ = Macrium and user data backups, 3TB 7200 RPM HDD
    l:\ = Spare 1TB SSD, SATA
    120GB SSD for Linux, SATA

    PM_Memory.jpg

    Edit; When I ran at 4.1 GHZ scores were higher.

    PassmarkEVO960_e.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
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  7. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKS = That sucks! Dont wast your $$ on FILTH

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    @hmscott You talk and talk about that Intel screw their users with every new cpu release the year after(no compablity with cpu refresh on current socket/chipset). You have messed preached about this the last couple of years now. From your own mouth... Only AMD offer Cpu upgradeability.
    This below is rumors and not officially but will you continue as usual, speak up loudly that Intel will screw the users who have Z370/X299 MB when the next processors and MB come this fall?
    Intel’s Flagship Coffee Lake-S 8 Core CPUs Arriving in September on Z390 Refresh Platform – Skylake-X Here To Stay, Will Get 22 Core CPU Update This Year

     
  8. ajc9988

    ajc9988 Death by a thousand paper cuts

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    Yeah, I need to someday get another couple SSDs to have the OS on each one. Currently, my SSD shares all my OSes and most programs except games, which are on one of the 8TB drives (2TB of games). But I definitely get doing it that way, which simplifies many things.

    Here is my score for 3600 CL14 17-17-34-48 1T @3.95GHz on the CPU.
    upload_2018-6-12_13-32-33.png

    Also, do you have AIDA64? Wanted to compare the FP scores on that considering this software said my floating point was 1/6th of what it should be. I'm trying to rule out a driver or other software effecting this software specifically, although something must be up considering you also smashed my blender render by like 3 minutes.
     
  9. ajc9988

    ajc9988 Death by a thousand paper cuts

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    Although you are speaking to him, and do have some points, your article doesn't stand for the proposition you think it does.

    First, the Z390 or whatever from Intel changes to the Cannonlake-H chipset, from the Coffee chipset. This means, just like the release of the Haswell second chipset, the older boards will not support beyond this year's 8-core, which is basically just a type of refresh, but more, than what the 4790K was compared to the 4770K. But, as I said, that means that we could be looking at compatibility on this chipset with the 10nm chips for next year.

    Now, it would be wrong to say Intel never allows forward compatibility, as every time they have stalled on die shrinks or new processes, they then have limited forward compatibility, like the with the 4790K and the broadwell series (which sucked), Skylake and Kaby on Z170 (because they couldn't get 10nm working for cannon), and then they popped out the z370 within 8 months of the 270 because that is the type of forward thinkers they are and they know by calling them roughly the same gen that consumers would revolt if having to get a new board AGAIN so quickly on the same line. But you do have a point, to a degree.

    On the HEDT platform, they screwed consumers, and there is no two ways around this. The platform has always lasted for two years and was based on the promise of a two generation compatibility with the server industry as the socket was the same socket as the xeons. Here, that is only semi-true. Now, Intel said they were splitting the HEDT and server markets clearly with this gen last year, introducing the FPLGA 3647 pin monster for the server side. That would have been fine. But what we now run into is a further market segmentation with the news of a new "Ultra-Premium Desktop Market" for the new chips that will cost easily DOUBLE what AMD will likely charge for their 32-core variant, meaning they are dicking the HEDT out of getting the highest possible chips, as they thought they would be able to get, and making the UPDM (which ultra-premium is their way to appeal to the dipshit consumers that don't realize they were already dicked, and to appeal to nothing as all it is is a high end desktop) so cost prohibitive few will buy it, which is good considering how low the yields they have on monolithic dies. They SK-X refresh with 22 cores is to tell those that got the 18-core you can still upgrade, even though those on the X399 platform, so long as they have certain boards without crap VRM, can throw the 24 and 32 core variants in without a problem (my VRM stays around 40C while pulling 250W, meaning I could even push up to 300W easy on the chips). The X399 boards benefited from the Intel VRM debacle as they practically copied the X299 boards for X399 with some tweaks, then corrected some issues that were found in June on X299 by the time the X399 boards arrived in late July and throughout August. With that said, I am looking forward to the new 19 phase designs for both platforms.

    But, you seem to gloss over a couple points in that article I would like to highlight:

    "The reason Intel will stick to the X299 Skylake-X CPU family and not take an entire jump to Cascade Lake-X platform is due to price. The Cascade Lake-X platform is going to at least, twice as much expensive as the current Core-X processors and their accompanying platform."
    "[F]irst is the chip itself which are basically repurposed Xeon Platinum and Xeon Gold parts. These chips cost north of $5000 US and the top variant comes in at $10,000 US (28 Core Xeon Platinum 8180). Considering the Intel Core i9-7980XE costs $2000 US for 18 cores, we can expect the 28 core model to be close to $5000-$6000 US easily. Even though there’s a 24 core part and more configurations on the way in the Cascade Lake-X, we expect the price to put a heavy toll on your wallets."
    "Secondly, ... motherboard manufacturers are putting extra RnD in building the new LGA 3647 socketed motherboards. The ones Intel used as a demo on their Computex press conference stage was a prototype and not a final variant. The motherboard vendors we had a talk with revealed that they expect the launch of Cascade Lake-X motherboards to slip to 2019 as it will take a long time getting the stability on the processors correct. We are talking about over 200W TDP parts and Intel board vendors had a hard time getting 18 core parts (under 200W) stable on current X299 parts."
    "Furthermore, to continue X299 as a more cost-effective HEDT solution, Intel is going to offer new configurations with a never before seen 22 core part." (This is crap as they already said these are repurposed Xeons, which cuts against the narrative of never before seen because this is a rebadge; also, notice the language meant to upsell the new platform by calling this "more cost-effective")
    "The latest X299 processors will also be accompanied with new X299 refresh boards that push the TDP support up to 300W. AMD and their board partners are going to take a similar approach as their 2nd generation Ryzen Threadripper chips bump the TDP to 250W."

    That last one means to run the old line (as it pointed out that the 18-core parts have a hard time running stable on current boards) and the new chips up to 22-cores, you need or should purchase a new board. That, once again, cuts against the promise of two-year cadence on those boards, mainly because Intel wasn't straight with MB mfrs last year for power requirements and this year they caught on for the refresh boards to support up to 22-cores, where the AMD counterparts theoretically will be able to support 32-core chips, at least at stock or low OCs.

    So, no, this is evidence Intel is screwing their users, just not in the way you were using it which was to disprove the statement in regards to mainstream boards and chipsets. In other words, if I was him, I'd be yelling my analysis I just gave on Intel screwingg X299 users readily, although this, in part, cuts against the narrative as to the Z370 chipset. Please, let me know if I misstated anything here.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
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  10. TANWare

    TANWare Just This Side of Senile, I think. Super Moderator

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    No AIDA64. I tried it but it was not too my liking. I think once you get the system performance back you will see a huge difference. Now with CB R15 it seems to make little difference but with things like SuperPi and some other apps it does. If you have an extra drive do a fresh install too it of Windows and you will see.

    I have tried drivers and a bunch of things to find the issue to no avail. The only thing that was somewhat consistent was turning on the HPET timer to only and EVENTUALLY it would have the performance issue. If you find the issue and it is reversible I am sure it will make a lot of others happy, including me.

    I've many of people say I was nuts just finding the consistent indicator of this issue let alone what was always a 100% reversal of it. TBH I noticed it as the desktop lost a lot of its snap and went looking for a reason and this is what I found. And yes it did return the snap back to my system.

    Edit; this issue can rear its ugly head as effecting integer math only or both integer and floating point, it seems to always effect integer is why I say to specifically look for that. I mention this as it may be two different settings or whatever but with one of those being the primary trigger.

    IE what ever effects FP may not have a noticeable affect to performance till the problem affecting integer performance finally hits.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
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