RTX v RTX Max Q?

Discussion in 'Gaming (Software and Graphics Cards)' started by Cariblo, Aug 11, 2019.

  1. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Yup, there are other reasons that can cause the battery to fail and swell, but the heat issue is a big one and affects all chemistry - some more than others - but a higher environmental temp when charging and discharging under load will cause more failures than a lower temperature.

    So the slim laptops that can't / don't vent heat will cook the batteries with a larger percentage of swollen failures than a large laptop with adequate cooling. The thin and light laptops just don't have the volume to hold enough mass to sink the heat and large enough heat exchangers or fans to expel the heat.

    The large frame laptops have the physical characteristics that allow them to pack in cooling hardware enough to vent out the heat constantly enough to keep the laptop from heat soaking - holding in the heat until it builds up to dangerous levels for the battery.

    You can also get bad battery design and chemistry which we've seen in laptops and phones. But the heat issue is what causes the failures even with good battery design and chemistry - IDK if they can come up with a design / chemistry to stop swollen batteries that are heat soaked.

    They could design the battery with active cooling? - but there again more room would be needed for the battery active cooling and there is no such room in a thin and light laptop.

    It makes sense to buy a large frame laptop if performance is your goal - gaming in AAA games for one - as the small thin laptops can't handle continuous load without continuously building up heat.
     
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  2. seanwee

    seanwee Notebook Evangelist

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    Rather than size and cooling being the issue, I think that it's due to most thin and lights being made out of aluminium which conducts heat very well compared to say, plastic which is found on thicker laptops.

    The aluminium chassis will spread the heat throughout the laptop which may be good for cooling, but bad for other components like the battery.

    Maybe they can wrap the battery with polystyrene or some heat insulating material?
     
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  3. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Another good point, the battery is sinked right to the heat source through the frame / chassis, which is a design requirement for these super thin laptops, the normal cooling components don't have enough mass to sink the heat away from the CPU / GPU and the heat exchangers + fan's don't have enough power to expel all of the heat, so the designers used the frame / chassis component mass to wick the heat away and the surface area of the chassis can expel the heat via air conduction - convection.

    I don't think insulation would be enough, and again that would add thickness to the design - thick enough insulation would be very thick and compressed into the frame there could still be enough conduction into the battery past the insulation.

    I've thought for quite a while that the battery / power / charging should be taken completely external from the laptop. That would result in a larger power brick but the battery enclosure could be designed with heat pipes + active fan cooling to keep the battery cold without making the laptop thicker.

    Maybe make the external brick modular, with a section holding the battery only for portable use - you could buy / carry more than one external battery as well - and keep the charger / power brick separate.

    It's gotta be the next step for these thin and light laptops to make them thinner and lighter, and safer.
     
  4. Felix_Argyle

    Felix_Argyle Notebook Consultant

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    Insulating battery is a big no-no, battery HEATS UP during discharge. You would kill it faster if you will insulate. The best solution is to add extra vents around the battery, so for example the air would be taken from the front of laptop, go around the battery and exhausted through the back and side air exhausts. This is easy to implement in most laptops and this would provide optimum airflow since the air will be taken from the area farthest from CPU and GPU (meaning the air will have lowest possible temperature) and adding vents on the front will allow people to place laptops on soft sufrace without completely restricting airflow. This will also NOT make laptop thicker and will NOT add a HUGE inconvenience such as "external battery with extra annoying cable which requires extra space".
     
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  5. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    You would need to make room for the air channels in the battery, which would need to make the room the battery system takes larger - making the laptop thicker. Plus, you need active cooling to push / draw air through those battery vents, adding room and weight again.

    There's really no way around it, thin laptops aren't good designs for high performance gaming because they can't be made to vent the heat fast enough as generated by the CPU / GPU under continuous load while gaming.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
  6. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOK's Sucks! Dont waste your $$$ on FILTHY

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    This will make laptops more noisy and the oppsite of what the engineers want. You'll need bigger and stronger fans to make this possible.

    Just look at what Apple does. Prefer 100C over more noisy machines.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
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  7. seanwee

    seanwee Notebook Evangelist

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    Ah yes you mean the overpriced and overheating crapbooks.

    I don't think that's a feasible idea. What I meant was like a dedicated battery compartment rather than just the exposed cells.

    Thats not practical imo. You'd be starving the fans of air and that design only works with axial fans, not the centrifugal fans found in laptops.

    Getting more airflow to cool the battery because its being heated up by the system is a band-aid solution. The problem now is the heat from the cpu and gpu may harm the battery so we need to isolate the battery from said heat.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  8. rinneh

    rinneh Notebook Prophet

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    The larger laptops also tend to use cylindrical lithium-ion cells which cannot swell since they are in a metal container. Smaller laptos use lithium polymer pouches exclusively.

    I still think it is mostly the overcharging aspect and bad chemistry which is the main culprit, considering laptops such as the Dell XPS15 run quite hot, are very popular but the swollen battery cases are fairly rare. Unlike the Razer Stealth laptops which run quite a bit cooler but a large chunk of the users report swollen batteries after just 2 years. The Asus cases in this thread are even worse though, the Zephyrus laptop is in most cases not even 1 year old. How are the case temps of that laptop?

    I havent seen any swollen batteries of the RB15 Advanced models yet even though those run fairly hot as well.
     
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  9. rinneh

    rinneh Notebook Prophet

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    It sucks though that Alienware didnt continue with the first gen AW15 style thickness laptops. I know they where BGA, but for todays components they had a lot of room which would easily cool components to levels which no todays thinner laptops could do while still being fairly portable.

    I make progressive metalcore/djent music :D
     
  10. Felix_Argyle

    Felix_Argyle Notebook Consultant

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    This will not make "laptops more noisy". All you need is add extra vents, they do NOT require bigger and stronger fans since you need a very little airflow from such vents (battery doesn't need much cooling). At the very worst you can add extra fan which would operate at very low RPMs (it would be always less noisy than CPU fan) specifically for battery cooling, you can also use the airflow from this fan to cool the hot NVME m.2 SSD.
     
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