If any of you have played Civ and thought that you wish it was more complex, I suggest you take a look at any of the Paradox Grand Strategy titles. One of the mind blowing things about these games is that unlike in Civ where you are limited to 20/30 civs to chose from, in a PDX title you can play as any nation/character at any point in time. Crusader Kings 2 is focused on dynastic management, you chose to start as a count/duke/king/emperor in whatever place in eurasia your heart desires between 769-1453 and through warfare, marriages, clever murder, and other intrigue try to accumulate titles for yourself and your family. Significantly more fun than it sounds, has a really popular game of thrones mod. Europa Universalis 4 is more focused on nation states and conquest. You can still acquire personal unions through marriage but most of the game is about conquest. The game also had detailed mechanics for things like colonization, technology spread, and trade. The game covers the span between 1444 and 1821. Victoria 2 is a bit antiquated at this point but has aged well. It has the most complex peacetime mechanics of any of the titles and features a very impressive global market economy where prices fluctuate based on production in all the provinces in the world/tariff policies/supply/demand. Colonization, westernization, political reform movements, and spheres of influence are omnipresent in this title. Covers the 1836-1914 period. Hearts of Iron 4 is quite focused on warfare, covering the period between 1936 and 1948. Advances in military doctrine and technology are the player's focus during the interwar period, and important nations get focus trees where if you wanted to make France go communist and join the Soviet faction or wanted to play as a Facist Luxembourg joining the Germans, you could do that too. You can enable "historical focuses" to avoid the AI from doing things like this if you wanted to play a more historical game. The tutorials suck, go look at their respective wiki pages for helpful stuff. My favorite quote about these games is that the first few hundred hours you play them is your tutorial.