Ray tracing another BS

Discussion in 'Gaming (Software and Graphics Cards)' started by Danishblunt, Nov 25, 2018.

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  1. ole!!!

    ole!!! Notebook Prophet

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    thief AI best
     
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  2. JRE84

    JRE84 Notebook Deity

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    ray tracing technique is software that needs new hardware to run....I have no idea how you guys argue the most bizzare stuff

    ripped from googles definition

    Ray tracing is a technique that can generate near photo-realistic computer images. A wide range of free software and commercial software is available for producing these images. This article lists notable ray-tracing software.

    In computer graphics, ray tracing is a rendering technique for generating an image by tracing the path of light as pixels in an image plane and simulating the effects of its encounters with virtual objects.

    144 strikes back
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
  3. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Hey, IDK why you are insisting on arguing with data not of Nvidia - they are the first to add this ray-tracing assist hardware to get closer to real-time ray-tracying. Even that quote about software still relies on the underlying hardware assist of the GPU and CPU, software doesn't run in thin air. :)

    Go to Nvidia's Turing / RTX release info, they discuss there that 50% of their die is for RTX features, and without it they couldn't have accomplished real-time ray-tracing or DLSS.

    "Turing represents the biggest architectural leap forward in over a decade, providing a new core GPU architecture that enables major advances in efficiency and performance for PC gaming, professional graphics applications, and deep learning inferencing.

    Using new hardware-based accelerators and a Hybrid Rendering approach, Turing fuses rasterization, real-time ray tracing, AI, and simulation to enable incredible realism in PC games, amazing new effects powered by neural networks, cinematic-quality interactive experiences, and fluid interactivity when creating or navigating complex 3D models.
    "
    https://devblogs.nvidia.com/nvidia-turing-architecture-in-depth/
    QUHzV0e.jpg
    The graphical lines show a rough % of die usage for context, they don't actually dilineate the exact boundries of use. The actual circuits are mixed in together.
    https://www.anandtech.com/show/13282/nvidia-turing-architecture-deep-dive

    Ray-tracing interface is through software, but like I said most things like RTX and Wifi are part hardware and part software, they work together, not independently.

    The difference with RTX is that the standard GPU hardware wasn't tuned to be optimized for ray-tracing so Nvidia built in a hardware assist using RT Cores to make it faster, but nowhere near powerful enough for a 100% ray-tracing replacement of traditional ray-tracing software running on shader / compute hardware.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
  4. thegreatsquare

    thegreatsquare Notebook Deity

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    Ray-tracing reminds me of a joke about a newlywed wife who is upset to find her husband masturbating and exclaims how she wants to take care of his needs, to which the husband replies, "I appreciate the thought honey, but I don't think you comprehend the workload".

    Ray-tracing done right is everything done in Ray-tracing, otherwise you're going to catch things left to screen space reflection. Ray-tracing is tough now and it's not even doing the whole job. Some compare Ray-tracing to tessellation, but it will probably mature like SSAO with increasingly complex types. The hardware and software need to mature.
     
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  5. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox Undefiled BGA-Hating Elitist

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    Ray-tracing is not a good reason to buy one. Playing games is not a good reason to buy one. There is only one reason (as highlighted below, along with Cuda core count) I would want one, but the pricing is ludicrous.

    upload_2018-12-11_21-3-37.png
     
  6. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    These analysis of what the 20 series pricing would have been go into a lot of detail, and provide good estimates of what the RTX GPU's are really worth, forgetting about the RTX baggage and focusing on generation to generation price points:
    http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/nvidia-thread.806608/page-109#post-10831556

    If Nvidia was looking for "next generation GPU repellent" so Nvidia could sell off the Series 10 backlog of inventory, the RTX GPU's are the perfect storm of no value and no benefits to differentiate them, saddled with prices that make people sad.

    The 2080ti and the Titan RTX are priced way too high for any rational purchase decision. Both are the only GPU's that exceed the 10 series GPU's. Otherwise you can find a GTX GPU that will match performance for much less, far less if you buy used. :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
  7. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox Undefiled BGA-Hating Elitist

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    Yes, it is extremely, beyond retarded, overpriced. I want a 2080 Ti FTW3, but they are not available and the price makes me want to punch someone in the groin with brass knuckles.

    I am bidding on a new EVGA 1080 Ti SC2 Hydro Copper to SLI my current setup. If I get it for the price I am willing to pay for it, then I'll do the same power mod to the second GPU. The trouble for people that want the best is no more 2080 Ti are available new from retail sources. They've sold out all 2080 Ti GPUs everywhere because lots of people want the best of the best. I am unwilling to settle for a lesser GPU unless the pricing falls to AMD or lower price levels for some extra cheap HWBOT hardware points. I have no interest in the weaker GPUs since what I already have is many times better. I suspect NVIDIA is waiting for more people to lower their standards and buy 1060 and 1070 stock before any of the RTX prices fall in line. From the way it looks now, that might take a long time because the lesser GPUs do not seem to be selling well even at hugely discounted prices. It would be silly for those with the financial means to waste money on an AMD 580, 590 or Vega 64, 1060 or 1070 because they are smart enough to know they won't be satisfied with the performance. All of the benchmark comparisons on YouTube constantly highlight their performance inferiority, so only a moron (or someone with limited budget) would want them. And, there is the possibility that they will never fall in line, even after all of the 1060 and 1070 are gone, as long as there is such disparity in performance and zero competition from AMD in the high-end GPU space.
     
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  8. Koniptn

    Koniptn Notebook Enthusiast

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    Honestly, I'm convinced nVidia is attempting to recover from when they pulled that 1080ti release and dumped the price for better perf over the Titan Pascal. 700 dollars that beat out a ~1200 dollar card that a lot of people bought into.

    I mean, seriously, ~30% perf increase (2080ti vs 1080ti), for almost double the price? Someone at nVidia (or multiple someones) are hitting the crack pipe hard
     
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  9. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox Undefiled BGA-Hating Elitist

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    It might be the crack pipe. It could also be that they are just trolling for dumb-dumbs. Normally, I would say you can't blame them for seeing what they can get away with... but, the trouble is if too many people drink the Kool-Aid, asinine becomes the new norm. They blamed it on the bitcoin miners before, but now that mining is no longer a thing they are perpetuating the insanity and some are numb to the nonsense. If and when the prices do return to normal, we need to brace ourselves for the non-stop expressions of outrage from the dumb-dumbs that paid double for the same product. I may ultimately end up falling into the dumb-dumb camp before its over, but I am not rushing toward the edge of the cliff and waving my wallet in the air.
     
  10. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    And, then Nvidia has the gall to follow up with another 2x price jump between RTX GPU models, from $1300 -> $2500 for the Titan RTX, and then try to market it to consumers.

    As a professional card, fine it's gonna get budgeted for commercial use, but then Nvidia actually tries to sell the Titan RTX to the gamer / consumer crowd by doing that "cute as a button" sneaky sneak of a Titan RTX box into the background of "social media" influencers video's as a soft release.

    Nvidia needs to put triple effort's into delivering RTX DLSS and ray-tracing through new games otherwise people might gather in groups asking for refunds on their RTX GPU's, considering Nvidia never delivered RTX useful software for their high dollar RTX GPU's.

    How long will people wait before calling Nvidia on their release promises of 25 DLSS games + 10+ Ray-tracing games? It's been 5 months soon, with 1 RT game and no DLSS games. Sad.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
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