Ray tracing another BS

Discussion in 'Gaming (Software and Graphics Cards)' started by Danishblunt, Nov 25, 2018.

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  1. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox Undefiled BGA-Hating Elitist

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    You're comparing a software-only thing to a hardware solution. While the end result may have some aesthetic similarities, they are not the same thing.

    Some people did not purchase an RTX 2080 Ti for ray tracing. I did not. I actually don't really care much about that. I purchased it for GDDR6 bandwidth, higher core clock, higher memory clock and higher benchmark scores, and higher frame rates in games. The MSRP is ~30% higher than any of us would like it to be, but the performance increase has been shown to be about 30% more than 1080 Ti, so it's hard to argue that it constitutes unfairness. But, I will be the first to admit (and complain) that the pricing sucks and feels like highway robbery even though the math is there. Unfortunately, it looks like desktop GeFarts cards are price-matching laptop MXM cards now. It will be interesting to see how ludicrous RTX mobile is going to cost. Imagine there will be even more complaining once mobile RTX turds "hit the fan" LOL.

    I don't see any basis for legal action so far, other than maybe the 'Space Invaders' artifacts and dying GPUs for those who got unlucky with a defective card - but it's not prevalent enough for that as much as the media hype from the talking heads portray it to be. And, as long as they are being replaced under warranty, there is no basis for legal action in that regard.

    Nobody is being forced at gunpoint to buy an RTX card and nobody should feel like they cannot live without ray tracing hardware support. A GTX 1080 or 1080 Ti is more than enough for most gaming needs unless one is hell bent on gaming in 4K. It is undeniable that the RTX 2080 Ti is better suited for that purpose.
    The idea of pickup up a used 1080 Ti for half price is a great one, but not just any 1080 Ti was going to serve my purpose. Overpaying for a used GPU is not conceptually different than overpaying for a new GPU. I think paying 70-80% of the original MSRP for an obsolete 2 year old GPU, especially if it was used 2 years, rode hard and put up wet, is not any worse (to me) than paying 30% too much for a next generation GPU. I guess you have to pick your poison. I would have been more than happy (and tried) to get a second 1080 Ti SC2 to match what I have, then mod it like my current GPU... but not for $600. That's nuts. Plus, I would have either needed to buy two new matching water blocks or buy one that doesn't match my current Hydro Copper block and have an aesthetically goofy system that looks like it was built from spare parts. The only water block that I could find for sale (new or used) to match mine was a broken Hydro Copper block for sale on eBay, so that $600 would become $900 including two new water blocks, and possibly have little or no warranty left on the GPU. I found 1080 Ti Hydro Copper GPUs for sale on eBay for about $800, which is equally retarded even though that would be an exact match to what I have now. Kind of like buying a used late model car with high miles, worn out tires and brakes and a dented quarter panel, with little or no warranty left, in order to save 20-30% on the cost of a new car doesn't make good sense.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
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  2. hfm

    hfm Notebook Prophet

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    "When your whole life flashes before your eyes, how much of it do you want to not have ray tracing?"
    - 2018, A True Prophet
     
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  3. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Response to Tom's Hardware's Insane "Just Buy It" Post [RTX 2080] - "Is this Satire!??"
    Gamers Nexus
    Published on Aug 24, 2018
    Tom's Hardware published an article of herculean stupidity that pertained to the idea of pre-ordering based on nothing more than promises.
    We're still not sure what Tom's Hardware was going for with its "Just Buy It" article (https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvi...), but we figured we'd do our best to interpret and respond to the piece. The Tom's article is referencing pricing concerns from users relating to the new NVIDIA RTX video cards, including the RTX 2070, RTX 2080, and RTX 2080 Ti, which have higher prices relative to previous same-name products. We're not saying to buy or not buy the RTX cards (unlike Tom's), but are commenting on the actual insanity contained within the Tom's Hardware article by their for-now Editor-in-Chief.


    When your whole life flashes before your eyes...

    submitted 3 months ago by bmw2002guy
    https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/9a5upa/when_your_whole_life_flashes_before_your_eyes/

    RagnarThaRed 186 points 3 months ago
    "I could not stop laughing at that part. Yes Toms Hardware, ray tracing will be what I think about as I die, not friends, not family, but those sweet sweet reflections and shadows."

    Good Times... :D
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
  4. hfm

    hfm Notebook Prophet

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    Yeah that was truly fun watching reactions to that horrible story.
     
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  5. capo245

    capo245 Notebook Enthusiast

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    It s not the same thats right, but this was 10 years ago non hw accelerated, and what nvidia delivered in 2018 is just worse quality wise my point is the rtx raytracing should have looked at worse at least 10x times that good with no performance impact. look at a game from 1990 and 2000 or 2000 and 2010.
    Thats should have been at minimum the difference to even call this a feature.
    If the price was good nobody would have had a problem i would have been the first to say well done but it isnt. Maybe not at gunpoint but they are the major duopolist so there is not much of a choice anyways.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
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  6. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    You might be over thinking this a bit. :)

    The $600 1080ti you want against the $1500 2080ti you got makes the 2080ti 2.5x more expensive, for a comparatively small performance boost.

    Neither of them have water blocks, so to put one on either would require similar additional expense.

    So the 2080ti is still more expensive, by 2.5x...for a meager uplift in performance, and likely less OC upside.

    "Nobody is being forced at gunpoint to buy an RTX card and nobody should feel like they cannot live without... a 2080ti..."

    But, you did feel that way so you bought a 2080ti, and so you were in effect forced at "none"-point (you don't get "none" if'n ya don't buy) to buy an Nvidia RTX 2080ti card at 2x+ what it is worth.

    Nvidia RTX sucks. :cool:
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
  7. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox Undefiled BGA-Hating Elitist

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    Nope, I spent a bit less than $1500 including the water block. Everything high end and awesome sucks and costs more than it's worth today. I'm just not willing to spend $600 for a obsolete matching second-hand $800 GPU of unknown experience and uncertain bin quality, partially used up warranty (or potentially no warranty) and then adding another $175 to that for a water block (or $350 for two if I want both to match aesthetically). By the time I do that I am only like $400 away from what I paid for the latest product with a full warranty and roughly 30% performance increase.

    You also have to remember that I am not what some like to call a "hardcore gamer" and if I were then I would have everything I need already with my modded GTX 1080 Ti. But, that's not me... my main hobby is overclocked benching. Both hobbies require spending money. Instead of spending money on software (games) I am spending it on hardware. If I don't do that, I make no progress. I'm maxed out on what I can do with my GPU, as it has reached its functional limit. It's a lot cheaper than muscle cars, street rods, European sports cars, motorcycles, ATVs, boats or gun collecting. I love all those things, but they're outside of my reach financially. So, I really don't see the problem. But, where we agree is the price of RTX cards SUCK... big time. So does the price of all those other things I mentioned, including the latest popular games. Paying $60 and up for any game title is just downright idiotic (in my opinion). Different people place value on different things based on what they care about the most. It's all stuff, and it's all gonna burn in the end. Can't take any of it with you when you go.

    Everything, everywhere, is overpriced because people that want things are happy to overpay to get them. That really screws things up for those that are unwilling, or do so begrudgingly. Since gaming is my secondary hobby and not something I spend lots of time doing, I'm good with waiting for the price to drop to $20 or less on a title that I want, even it if takes a year or two. I'm totally fine with that because it's just not that important to me to have it early. It will own it forever since digital distribution software products don't wear out. People that don't need a new GPU can apply the same approach to the hardware as I do to buying games. Just wait and buy it later for less. Too bad that DRM filth makes buying used games a problem. I own enough games that I don't care anything about that I could probably just about pay for a RTX card if I could sell them from my Steam, Origin and Uplay game libraries.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
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  8. Support.3@XOTIC PC

    Support.3@XOTIC PC Company Representative

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    To be fair I've bought motorcycles for less than some people here spend on their builds. :)
     
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  9. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox Undefiled BGA-Hating Elitist

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    A new one? If I were going to purchase the kind of bike I would want, it would be far more expensive than any computer I would build for myself. Not saying I couldn't find a way spend more on a computer build if I had the financial resources, but I can build (and have built) the kind of computer I want that is within my means. I cannot afford to buy whatever kind of bike or car I want to own within my means. Or, to put it another way, I am not willing to incur the kind of debt that would require. I'd like to retire sometime in the next 15 years or so, and that would throw a real monkey wrench into the works, LOL.

    https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/supersport/models/2019/yzf-r1m
    upload_2018-12-19_14-46-33.png
    http://www.suzukicycles.com/Product Lines/Cycles/Products/Hayabusa/2019/GSX1300R.aspx
    upload_2018-12-19_14-48-23.png
     
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  10. Support.3@XOTIC PC

    Support.3@XOTIC PC Company Representative

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    We have slightly different taste, though that R1 is a very pretty machine. While my daily was similar in cost to the busa (Speed Triple), I have a soft spot for old UJMs and low displacement trail bikes, both of which can be had much cheaper. Works well with your comment about use though. Getting a bike for the track numbers (benchmarking) costs a lot more, but just for fun around town, stoplight dashing, general hooliganism (gaming)you don't need to spend nearly as much. And bikes even have their own version of BGA for you to hate...DCT.
     
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