Ray tracing another BS

Discussion in 'Gaming (Software and Graphics Cards)' started by Danishblunt, Nov 25, 2018.

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  1. Mr. Fox

    Mr. Fox Undefiled BGA-Hating Elitist

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    The only trouble with so many pushing back on the idiotic high prices for new RTX GPUs means the price of the last gen cards stays way too high. I was going to buck the system, say no to RTX madness, and go with another 1080 Ti for SLI (which I have always loved and missed for the last year... yes, I am a bencher first, gamer second, and SLI still rocks for benching). I've been a dual GPU fanboy since around 2006 and almost every system I have owned since then (primarily laptops) have been CrossFried or SLI'd. I intended to go SLI on my desktop all along, then the bitcoin mining nonsense started and that shot my plans down the tube, LOL.

    Unfortunately, I tried repeatedly (this month) to bid on 1080 Ti SC2 and FTW cards for over a week and lost every auction (5 or 6) because people are paying the same price for 1080 Ti cards that they were when brand new. I tried making offers and everyone laughed and scoffed at my "what it is actually worth" offers for their used GPUs. And, the new leftover stock that is available are selling for more than a new 1080 Ti used to sell for. The people selling those don't even acknowledge offers for less than what they want because all they need to do is wait for an idiot to buy their obsolete product for the full original price or more.

    So, that's just stupid. I finally gave up and ordered a new EVGA 2080 Ti XC2 Ultra Gaming. I did not want to do that... at all... but, I'm just not interested in paying new GPU prices for used GPUs, LOL.

    The gaming and high-end computing industry is just all messed up right now. Hopefully, it's not going to stay this way.

    And, the only alternative to buying an overpriced GeFarts GPUs just sucks no matter how you want to slice it. Higher power draw, higher temperatures, lower performance, buggy behavior and almost no overclocking headroom are just not good trade-offs for lower prices.

     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
  2. Vasudev

    Vasudev Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Most AMD GPU users know RTSS is buggy as hell on Radeons than nvidia(On Latest nvidia driver some configs have issues). Jay2cents should have used CAM or FRAPS or even CustomDX11/12 support and stealth support in RTSS for Radeons to work correctly. He could have used Radeon Overlay instead of 3rd party overlay.
    Mr. Fox I had same issue when I was gaming side by side on BGAs including my AW 15 980M vs my sister's laptop with m330 with 4GB RAM and 2GB VRAM. I was playing Sleeping Dogs Def. edition with High settings at 1080p on 980m and 720p on 330m and AMD actually had higher FPS(at 45-47) than 980M(30-40) even after switching to 720p on 980M. At that time I thought my 980M is dead. Then I joined here to find the real issue was Nvidia Swiss Cheese driver was the issue and reverted the driver to way old version to get the advertised FPS(Above 60 on Ultra at 1080p).
    I will say RTSS overlay has cut the FPS of nvidia cards in some games.
    I will switch to AMD Radeons even though they won't hold a candle to nvidia because I hate crappy driver updates breaking my games,apps and my display every damn time. For me stability and quality of driver matter. I don't care about TDP and power efficiency at all since I will be pushing them anyway to insane amounts. When I working on something I need the cards to perform like advertised even after multiple driver updates and product launches.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
  3. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    The 1080ti's were available for a long time before now for much less, I suggested to start buying them months ago.

    There are BuyItNow "EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SC2 GAMING" for around $600, and there are lots of "BuyItNow" 1080ti's in the $400-$650 range. You can pay less or more depending on how set you are on getting the EVGA brand.

    Either way the 1080ti's @ $400-$600 are all going for less than the $1300-$1800 I've seen the 2080ti's going for recently.

    I'd suggest to keep watching for the sub-$500 1080ti BuyItNow gems, they go quickly though you can still get them even now as evidenced by the large number of recent 1080ti SOLD items for good prices. (click link).

    About 300 sub-$500 1080ti's SOLD in the last 30 days (average of about 10 per day), and almost 3000 $400-$650 1080ti's SOLD in the last 30 days (average of about 100 per day).

    No need to waste money on inflated Holiday pricing on the already overpriced RTX GPU's when you can get a nice used 10 Series GTX GPU instead. :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
  4. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    There are hundreds of people working at RTG, those that left and are leaving aren't abnormal movements in an ever active job market in the Silicon Valley area. AMD Radeon Group is still releasing product and I wouldn't worry about them being slowed down at all by a long overdue retirement in management + a few marketing guys.

    Also, I wouldn't put much into the Intel additions, those are few of hundreds there too, it's nice to see good people continuing their careers, but Intel is a behemoth that isn't going to even register the difference of a couple of more hoopy froods.

    AMD just released another generational software upgrade with the Adrenaline 2019 release, with more automation and expansion of features that work better than Nvidia's without requiring Telemetry and a Login to use.

    The Vega 56 / 64 + RX580 / 590 are still good deals for their tier of performance, and can get tuned for good performance with lower than out of the box power draw.

    Next year, who knows when, the lower power and higher clock 7nm releases will hopefully continue to drive down price for performance, and raise the tiers a level or two higher.

    Not many people buy >$500 GPU's, most much lower in cost. Let Nvidia gouge the unwary and AMD can deliver the 90% solution. Hopefully people will give AMD a chance and buy them instead of wearing Nvidia blinders.

    Recently upgraded my old GTX 1060 3GB to a RX 590 and it works perfectly
    Submitted 17 hours ago by BunnyBoyo 246 comments
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/a70z86/recently_upgraded_my_old_gtx_1060_3gb_to_a_rx_590/

    BunnyBoyo[S] 116 points 15 hours ago
    "The 590 helps me a lot with rendering work of giant structures which I need to do for university, it also cost me 190€ which in comparison to a 1070 is super cheap - at least here because the 1070 costs around 410€"

    Some people in that thread didn't get the OP's intent, upgrade VRAM for a low price - they kept wanting him to spend $hundreds more and get a Vega/1080/1070ti/1070 - he saved a lot of money and got the performance he needed. He didn't have to spend tons of $ to do his work or game and resisted blowing cash unnecessarily due to peer pressure.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
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  5. Vasudev

    Vasudev Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    I don't remember saying that at all! I was complaining about the tools and methods used by Jayz2cents. It seems he is used to nvidia for better gameplay.
     
  6. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Battlefield V NVIDIA Ray Tracing RTX 2070 Performance
    Brent Justice, Monday , December 17, 2018
    https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/12/17/battlefield_v_nvidia_ray_tracing_rtx_2070_performance/10

    "The Bottom Line
    Considering we are near the top-end of RTX 2070 performance, we feel let down by the NVIDIA's ray tracing performance in Battlefield V. Even though ray tracing performance has improved with the latest patch, the RTX 2070 is simply underpowered for ray tracing in this Battlefield V.

    There is simply no way 1440p is going to be playable with any level of NVIDIA ray tracing. Only at 1080p, is Low and Medium levels of ray tracing playable in multiplayer Battlefield V. Even then, the RTX 2070 is walking the line of playability that we think most gamers expect.

    If you prefer a solid 60FPS+, you won’t get that with NVIDIA ray tracing enabled in Battlefield V, even at the Low setting. If you want that 60FPS+ performance, you are going to want to turn NVIDIA ray tracing off, and leave DX12 behind and use DX11.

    Who wants to buy a $630 video card, and just barely play at respectable performance levels at 1080p? That seems like a waste to us.

    The visual impact in Battlefield V isn’t great enough to justify the large drop in resolution and performance you must sacrifice with NVIDIA's ray tracing with the RTX 2070 video card.

    The bottom line is this; the GeForce RTX 2070 is underpowered for NVIDIA ray tracing in Battlefield V."
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
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  7. capo245

    capo245 Notebook Enthusiast

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    That whole rtx stuff is just a scam, a gta iv mod from 2013 with ambient occlusion raytracing.

    Has better lightfx than bf v id say.
     
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  8. Koniptn

    Koniptn Notebook Enthusiast

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    Oh I totally agree. Price to perf, ATi is the choice, hands down. But for raw performance, they've been out of the game since 2012/2013. The Hawaii XT was their last great architecture. The 290x was an absolutely baller card, and the 295x2 was just more of it.

    After that though, was when it all went down hill. They fell so far behind nGreedia when the 10 series came out, they became the "mid tier" gaming platform. And while that's where probably a solid 65% of the gamer base lives, for the remaining 35% of us, it isn't good enough.

    That isn't to get down on ATi cards at all. They're typically great. But for suckers like me that want the best shinies I can squeeze, nVidia has been the only option for the last 4 years.

    I want AMD/ATi to make a storm of a comeback. Their company deserves it. After Intel violated antitrust laws, they really screwed AMD over for a long time. Their CPU segment was definitely affected more than their GPU, but that took AMD years to recover from.

    I may be a blue/green teamer right now, but that's only because I wanted the top of the line stuff. I'm definitely itching to bleed red though, where the prices are reasonable, and at least one half of the performance is good. I'd love for both sides to be top dog again. Here's hoping the 7nm Navi cards really step the game up.
     
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  9. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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  10. capo245

    capo245 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Forgot to show what nvidia showed what rtx can do in 2018 for Investors at audi.
    Cpu realtime raytrace 2008

    Nvidia rtx in nvlink 2018

    seeing the comparison, i mean in an us court in front of a jury they must come to the conclusion that this was a preplanned scam and there was no effort or even the intension there to deliver what they advertised.
     
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