RAM and cooling pad reccomendations for Clevo P775-TM1G (workstation use)

Discussion in 'Hardware Components and Aftermarket Upgrades' started by TGFB3, Dec 24, 2019.

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RAM option

  1. RipJaws 2x16 x 2 3000 MHz CL 16

    66.7%
  2. Ballistix Sport 2x16 x 2 2666 MHz CL 16

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. HyperX 2x16 x 2 2666 MHz CL 15

    16.7%
  4. Corsair 2x32 GB 2666 MHz CL18

    16.7%
  1. TGFB3

    TGFB3 Notebook Enthusiast

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    I recently got a P775TM1-G (from Obsidian; I9 9900, RTX 2080) without disk drives as I already had a set from my old P775DM1G which I will just move over (2X Pro 970 1 TB and 2x Evo 860 4 TB). The system will be used for gaming and structural biology. The main offenders are CCPNMR, PyMol, Agilent LC/MS software, large amounts of curve fitting analysis from other experiments, and image processing; I might need to run Relion at some point in the future if I am lucky. I had two questions:

    1 - I will need probably a hefty amount of RAM, particularly for Relion (most likely 64 GB as 128 is prohibitive after everything else). I was looking at buying two 2x16 RipJaws 16/18/18 3000 MHz kits, but I am not sure if the motherboard could handle 64 GB with that speed and timings and therefore I should go for something less crazy to not waste money in RAM which won´t run that fast? I do not intend to overclock any bits to be fair (amonst other things, because I will already hammer the damn thing a lot)
    • My other option would be either HyperX Impact 2666 MHz 15/17/17 or Crucial Ballistix 2666 MHz 16 (don´t know the others but I think they are 16/16; I have 4x16 GB 2400 ones in my DM1G, had zero issues with them, and they are cheaper where I live).
    • There are no 64 GB kits for either of these so I was also wondering if I can just get 32 now and another 32 from the same model and make in the future to minimise things going boom with the RAM. For this computer RAM amount would take priority over speed as I regularly hit 30-40 GB if I don´t close stuff regularly in my DM1G, and in the TM1 I would assume that the CPU would demand even more RAM.

    2 - I will probably be running the laptop for several days when processing my data. I have a cooling pad which has fans under both GPU and CPU intake so that is covered but the problem is the NVME drive I use as a scratch (Evo Pro 970) which is sitting in the m.2 slot in the hard disk bays in my DM1G.
    I have a low-profile radiator fin on top but even with that it can reach regularly high 70´s and thtottles when I am running stuff in there, and I have another in the slot under the GPU (that one seems to cap at 60-65, thankfully).
    Is there any cooling pad which has a fan in the middle, so it´s blowing right on the small ventilation grill in the hard disk bay? I was thinking about this one but I am not sure about how good it is with the moving fans and whatnot as I have seen it mentioned around here a few times:
    https://www.amazon.es/Cooler-Master-NotePal-PLUS-R9-NBC-U3PK-GP/dp/B00ED3WMTC


    Apologies for the wall of text, I ramble too much...

    EDIT: After suggestions in the thread, I am considering another option (2x32 GB Corsair Cl18 kit). I also found the PassMark site and pulled the benchmarks of each option:
    ram.JPG
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
  2. TheReciever

    TheReciever D! For Dragon!

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    As for the cooling pad it's generally accepted that the best one is the cooler master u3 with 3x 120mm fans powered externally. Quite costly in comparison but otherwise cooling pads in general are kind of the pet rock of laptops. Otherwise just grab a copple of bottle caps and lift the back a bit to allow more breathing room.
     
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  3. TGFB3

    TGFB3 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Thanks, that makes sense. If I am going to ditch the fans altogether, would it make more sense to get a cheaper one with the same structure and replace the fans in it? Or is the U3 also good because of the grill?

    I was thinking on getting 2X 120 mm ones for the CPU/GPU and a smaller 80mm for the NVME slot (smaller so I got more wiggle room to overlap with the NVME venting hole), all Noctua 5V PWM ,and connected to a single NA FC1 controller ( so I can plug to the USB 3.0, total draw should be 0.45 A from the 0.9 and theoretically the port pulls out at 5V).
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2019
  4. joluke

    joluke Notebook Deity

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    For the Notepal U3 you can choose a Notepal U2 instead which will be cheaper and do some mods to it:

    http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...r-notepal-u3-plus.809628/page-3#post-10867390

    For RAM i'll wait for some recommendations since i'd like to upgrade my 2400mhz ram to something better
     
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  5. TGFB3

    TGFB3 Notebook Enthusiast

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    That post was quite helpful - I saw somebody already tried the low- noise fans and was a bit subpar so I changed my setup to use 2/3 12V 2000 rpm ones (the 3000 rpm are probably too loud on top of the laptop fans) and for now I will use one or two of the 80mm USB in the pad to cool the bottom NVME slot. I think I'll get the U3 in the end as the grill is larger,w gives me more space.

    I saw you did something like that as well; do the fans rattle if they are put together side-by-side as shown in that post?
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2019
  6. Casowen

    Casowen Notebook Consultant

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    If there is any laptop that can handle high ram speeds, it what you have. In theory the absolute best ram you can have is the corsair vengence 3000mhz because it latency values are 16-18-18-39 over 16-18-18-43 which is what gskill is at, plus those corsairs are the high end B-die anyway. Supposedly the most stable is the hyperx 2666mhz, which is why some boutique sellers only sell it over anything else, but I cant get any straight answer for that. Two kits of the same ram will work just fine. Its not like is quad channel anyway. Past that is bios tweaking, and I saw premamod in a video pull off something like 3400mhz at a lower latency value once with that laptop and those chips.

    He does not use ram cooling, and no you do not need to do ram cooling, especially on a laptop. The only thing you like want to try to mod cool is the PCH.

    What kind of program is relion? Some benefit from higher ram speeds, others like synthetics do not.

    NVME's are in no way properly cooled. You best bet will probably be to buy a newer and cooler running drive for that. In my testing, they also only spike in temperature when doing sustained sequential writing and nothing else really, which even then it throttles after awhile of that. Depending on the location, you could also cool it with a copper strip piece connected to the heatsink with abit of glue and thermal paste.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2019
  7. TGFB3

    TGFB3 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Thanks - I do not need (or want)to overclock so I did not consider the Corsair as they are way more expensive (214 GBP) than the G.skill (165) and double the Crucial (100) or HyperX (117) Is B-die more reliable than others, or is the benefit lost if not overclocking?
    The cooling is more for CPU/GPU/NVME over long periods of time. Temps with my DM1-G are already too close to 90 for comfort and the i9-9900 is a furnace compared to what I have there (although the RTX will be cooler and they share pipes )

    I am not an expert with Relion as I am not sure if I will be using it (it is experiment-dependant, really). It's software for electron microscope image analysis and 3D reconstruction of protein structures: think 500GB worth of high resolution images per dataset (or even more if I run unrefined data) which are then used to generate a 3D image of the object.

    It needs humongous amounts of RAM which is accessed quite heavily and frequently - 64 GB is kind of cutting it close for TB-level datasets but I don't expect to go that hard and as I will be running refined data which are much smaller (< 0.8 TB), if I am lucky enough with the data. It will be reading/writing quite frequently to the NVME drive though. I have those drives already from my other build and I could not find anything NVME which doesn´t turn into a toaster unfortunately, hence why I wanted to have a dedicated fan for it. The drive under the GPU does run colder (65 max) so I suspect it´s just not getting airflow; I might actually drill the case on the grill to get more air in.
    The other programs I use are not that RAM-heavy and 32GB would be sufficient if I am careful - I can upgrade later with the same sticks later on as you describe.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2019
  8. TGFB3

    TGFB3 Notebook Enthusiast

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    On the cooling pad idea, what would be more efficient?
    -2 fans blowing IN (under GPU and CPU) and one blowing OUT (center fan, slightly downwards to cover the M2 slot) to create airflow inside the case to cool the pipes and motherboard/NVME

    -or all 3 blowing IN, in the same configuration?

    I can use the provided 80mm fans with the cooler if I can't get perfect overlap in the NVME slot, as a bit of airflow should do it in that component.
     
  9. Casowen

    Casowen Notebook Consultant

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    The 9900k needs to be delid'ed in order to get any real temperature decreases, along with undervolting which I assume you've AT least done?

    If your working with data in that size, you might want to look into doing raid 0 setup for real performance increase in an nvme drive. And assuming relion is like any other corporate design/industrial software, you might want to look into either quadro gpu, with a xeon cpu, and ECC ram. All of that would dramatically increase the cost for sure, but thats also standard in that area. People get away all the time with gaming gpu's/cpu's/ram and drives all that environment because its much cheaper and works just as good usually. Assuming Relion is like most of those programs, it probably wont benefit from high performance ram, so samsung 32gb chips it may be for you, but that said I dont know much about relion to say. If what you said about 64gb as being cutting it close, then your probably better off with the samsung chips. You can always return items too if you want to do some trial and error. If your work is that important to you, then you may definately want to invest in ECC memory for sure, and maybe even quadro.

    I will say this also, apart from probably needing to switch to switch to an nvme raid 0 setup for much faster(and cooler) drive performance, you should also look into getting specifically MLC drives instead of standard TLC/QLC drives, because writing that much that often will kill most any tlc drive, and qlc wont even compete. There are of course better people here to ask about that. MLC is far more reliable and doesnt even need an slc cache, ECC, or other things associated with TLC weaknesses to compensate. What nvme drives have you tried? I went from a polaris samsung to an adata 8200 pro, and that polaris would hit 110c for no reason, while the adata doesnt go past 31c doing casual gaming. Sustained sequentual writing is what raises my drive temperature with the adata, and assuming you want to keep performance while being throttled, raid 0 is the way to go.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2019
  10. TGFB3

    TGFB3 Notebook Enthusiast

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    I got the 9900, not the K version, and went with Obsidian as they do LM/delid themselves for that reason; the 65 TDP/ 95 TDP figure is probably not true but I think the power limits on the non-K should be lower, at least that os what I saw with my 6700 in the DM1.
    The Evo Pro is MLC 2-bit, which is why I went for it
    I use the other 2 TLC Evo 4 TB for storage, and then I move the data to one of the Pro for working directory; the other is for OS and installation. I might try Raid0 as you suggested; Relion will be doing sustained writes so it will be the case you described.

    Quadro cards do not offer much of an improvement in Relion based on price according to academic literature, so I went with the RTX 2080.

    What is ECC memory exactly? I see that in most memory chips but I was told that I need a specific motherboard and cPU for that, so I considered non-ECC options as the sellers offer non-ECC for the TM1.I was able to find this.

    After what you said on memory speed I looked again - someone built 1 and 2/GPU workstations with 64 GB ram and seems that the GPU is the limiting factor, so I would assume that more ram > faster RAM (to cache stuff), and in gaming I can deal with the performance loss - I cap most of my games at 60-90 fps anyhow as otherwise I get dizzy when switching to my external monitor. More RAM should also stress less the NVME as caching won´t happen there so two birds with one stone.

    The Corsair 2*32 gb 2666 mhz kit seems to have a decent price (240; comparable with 4 Crucial or HyperX 16 GB sticks) and the CL is 18-18-18-43 which is not too far off and leaves room for expanding in the future. So I will follow your advice there and probably go for those; with only 2 sticks the IMC should not be as stressed so fringe benefits there, and as I don´t want to OC the lack of headroom those seem to have is not an issue.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/kbwongcuhk.wordpress.com/2019/04/14/my-experiences-in-setting-up-a-gpu-workstation-for-cryoem-relion/amp/

    https://kbwongcuhk.wordpress.com/2019/05/01/some-benchmark-of-relion-on-my-gpu-workstation/
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
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