Question About P870TM CPU Options

Discussion in 'Sager and Clevo' started by Mister_Blue, Mar 13, 2018.

  1. Arrrrbol

    Arrrrbol Notebook Evangelist

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    I'm not familiar with Clevo's models that use mobile CPUs. There will be people on the forum who are better placed to tell you about them. MSI seem to have pretty good cooling designs (the GT73/5 especially).

    If you do want a desktop CPU though, it might be worth looking at the Eurocom Tornado F5 (or the EVOC 16L). It is based on an MSI chassis and it seems to have more room for the VRM components to breathe (someone correct me if i'm wrong and its a hot mess). That uses Kaby Lake CPUs though rather than Coffee Lake. They do run a little cooler on average, but they are quad core rather than hex core CPUs. I think there is also work being done on the Tornado F7 which will use Coffee Lake CPUs.

    If i was buying a new laptop, I would probably veer against practicality and go for something with a desktop CPU. It will need more work and tinkering to get running nicely, but the performance speaks for its self. A good cooling pad like the Cooler Master U3 plus or similar will help keep the components cool. If you need to use your laptop on battery power however, a mobile CPU will be better for you.

    It may be a good idea to look around on the various owner's lounges of these laptops on the forum and ask them about their experiences with the laptops. There is also a form on the "What notebook should I buy?" section which can be filled in for others to help give you advice on what to buy.

    @Phoenix I believe has an MSI, so you may want to ask for his opinions on the GT73VR.

    You may also want to ask @Mr. Fox about Clevo/Eurocom/HIDEvolution systems as he probably has more experience with them than almost anyone else.

    Don't only listen to me though, try and get as many opinions as possible as everyone has different tastes and interpretations on things.

    On that note anyone feel free to call me out if anything I've said is bull****. :)
     
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  2. Mister_Blue

    Mister_Blue Notebook Enthusiast

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    Wow, thanks @bennyg for the detailed response! You are correct in assuming that I'm talking about HIDevolution. Which do you think would provide lower temps inside the P870TM?

    • Delidded - Unlocked, Under Volted and Overclocked i7-8700K, 4.7 GHz (Overclocked to 4.8GHz) (Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut)
    OR
    • i7-8700 (non-k) without any modifications and using Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
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  3. Danishblunt

    Danishblunt Notebook Virtuoso

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    Ignore what Bennyg wrote and instead trust actual numbers and facts instead of some random ranting about how great a notebook is and instead look at facts.

    https://ark.intel.com/products/126684/Intel-Core-i7-8700K-Processor-12M-Cache-up-to-4_70-GHz
    You can see under TDP the fine little question mark. Which states the following:
    When running the 8700 non k on stock turbo speeds (4.2ghz) the CPU gets the following results on Prime:
    [​IMG]
    Source

    So unless you plan on disabling turbo and run it on 3.6ghz then you can trust the 65TDP spec.

    Instead of listening to people, try to do research with facts and numbers. You'll quickly find out that what Bennyg is writing can be ignored and should be ignored.
    Also to save yourself money and time, honestly any 7700HQ + GTX 1070 notebook would do absolutely everything you'd want. I'd go for an MSI Dominator and be done with it if I were you. They work out of the box, are great machines, don't suffer form high temps etc.

    Here is Bennygs "hot mess"
    [​IMG]

    You know the very hot mess which is 54c and 66c on both GTX 1070s. Yes you read right, friggn 1070s on furmark with 54c + 66c.

    and a 6720HK on 4ghz on prime running without any throttling

    Meanwhile the P870DM3
    [​IMG]

    You know, the 90c on both CPU's and massive throttling on the 6700 non k to 3ghz. 800mhz clock on the primary 1080.

    Don't be fooled, do yourself a huge favor and get something like a 7700hq / 1070 system from MSI to make yourself actually happy. No crappy software, no bad throttling, no modding required, no crappy keyboard, no issues.

    Also here is the GT 83 on highed specced hardware:
    [​IMG]

    As you can see, temps are way to high, still less throttling than the Clevo on the GPU which is expected etc. Just don't go for high end specced hardware. You'll only have to deal with high heat, lots of noise, trashy huge power bricks and pay a premium to have to deal with it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
  4. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKS = That sucks!! STAHP! Dont buy FILTH...

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    Stop post nonsens!!

    Maybe you should start read Intel's datasheet so you can understand how Intel's processors works!!

    8th Gen (S-platform) Intel® Processor Family Datasheet Vol.1

    Thermal Considerations...

    The processor TDP is the maximum sustained power that should be used for design of the processor thermal solution.


    TDP is a power dissipation and component temperature operating condition limit, specified in this document, that is validated during manufacturing for the base configuration when executing a near worst case commercially available workload as specified by Intel for the SKU segment.

    TDP may be exceeded for short periods of time or if running a very high power workload.

    To allow the optimal operation and long-term reliability of Intel processor-based systems, the processor must remain within the minimum and maximum component temperature specifications. For lidded parts, the appropriate case temperature (TCASE) specifications is defined by the applicable thermal profile. For bare die parts the component temperature specification is the applicable Tj_max.

    Thermal solutions not designed to provide this level of thermal capability may affect the long-term reliability of the processor and system.

    The processor integrates multiple processing IA cores, graphics cores and for some SKUs a PCH, or a PCH and EDRAM, on a single package.This may result in power distribution differences across the package and should be considered when designing the thermal solution.

    Intel Turbo Boost Technology 2.0 allows processor IA cores to run faster than the base frequency. It is invoked opportunistically and automatically as long as the processor is conforming to its temperature, voltage, power delivery and current control limits. When Intel Turbo Boost Technology 2.0 is enabled:

    • Applications are expected to run closer to TDP more often as the processor will attempt to maximize performance by taking advantage of estimated available energy budget in the processor package.


    • The processor may exceed the TDP for short durations to utilize any available thermal capacitance within the thermal solution. The duration and time of such operation can be limited by platform runtime configurable registers within the processor.

    • Graphics peak frequency operation is based on the assumption of only one of the graphics domains (GT) being active. This definition is similar to the IA core Turbo concept, where peak turbo frequency can be achieved when only one IA core is active. Depending on the workload being applied and the distribution across the graphics domains the user may not observe peak graphics frequency for a given workload or benchmark.

    • Thermal solutions and platform cooling that are designed to less than thermal design guidance may experience thermal and performance issues. Note: Intel Turbo Boost Technology 2.0 availability may vary between the different SKUs.
     
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  5. Falkentyne

    Falkentyne Notebook Virtuoso

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    DO NOT LISTEN TO DANISHBLUNT !!!

    He has been spamming forums and getting reps from newbies who think he's a god or something.
    ONLY listen to Benny, Mr Fox, Phoenix, @Arrrrbol , Prema, BGAbook dragon slayer Papusan, and other well established members who have done their homework (and had blood wounds from BGA throttlebooks in the past).

    I'll say it again.
    Danishblunt is the proud owner of a GT73VR THROTTLEBOOK with a 5200 mhz (5.2 ghz) STABLE 7820HK at a nice low vcore of 1.270v, on TRADITIONAL THERMAL PASTE (he hates liquid metal).
    Did I say it was guaranteed stable? Along with picture proof? :) :) : ):)

    Just to make something else clear:
    Mr Blunt has absolutely no idea what the IA AC DC loadline setting does. Reference value for MSIbooks Kaby Lake / Z270) is 1.80 mOhms and 2.10 mOhms for Coffee Lake (Z370, etc)

    Assuming 100 amps of power draw (this is dirty science, i'm sure Prema or an Intel engineer will come correct me): 1.80 mOhms=0.0018 Ohms.
    100 * 0.0018= 0.180 volts. Thats 0.180 volts of batter...er...I mean VID Boost (Sorry, @Papusan I had to type that).

    So 1.270v + 0.180v= 1.45v at 100 amps. GT73VR is only good for a suicide run at 5 ghz @ 1.4v with SuperPI 1M or a CPU-Z screenshot. Zener Diodes will cause VRM shutoff if you try to put a multi core load on the system at this point, or you reach 100C *WITH* liquid metal.

    Here's 4900 mhz after 3 runs of Cinebench, with fans at 100% speed and with Conductonaut. Yes, Liquid metal. Mighty Papusan is licking his chops at this throttlebook...This is 1.375v, with VID BOOST REMOVED (IA AC DC loadline is set to 0.01 mOhms).

    cinebench_4900mhz_1375mv_iaacdc_1.png
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018
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  6. Mister_Blue

    Mister_Blue Notebook Enthusiast

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    Wow, looks like it could function as a portable kitchen stove lol.

    All jokes aside, I'm heavily considering @Arrrrbol advice about going against practicality by getting a laptop with a desktop CPU. I did a little bit of researching regarding disabling turbo boost, and it seems to decrease CPU temps by (on average) 20C...which I think would make the i7-8700 (non-k version) a perfect fit.

    Additionally, I took a look at the GT73VR and it would be about $400 higher than the P870TM with similar chosen specs and $800 higher than the P775TM1--which I'm considering now since it's 4 pounds lighter than the P870TM and includes an option for an IPS panel (display quality is more important to me than higher refresh rate). The only thing I'm concerned about is the cooling in that chassis. I'd be getting the GTX 1070 for it, so I hope the temps won't be too high under heavy use.
     
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  7. Danishblunt

    Danishblunt Notebook Virtuoso

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    Once you bought it, could u do some gaming benchmarks? I'm interested to see how it performs, because so far I've only seen underperforming clevos and people who claim that theirs run good never upload anything.
     
  8. Falkentyne

    Falkentyne Notebook Virtuoso

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    The GT73VR is in no way more expensive than the P870 TM1 with similar specs. Make sure the DDR RAM configurations and the SSD drive options are the same. Just a minor change on SSD drive type and RAM can make a huge difference in the base price. The default configurations they ship with are different.

    I have a GT73VR And I'm telling you right now--JUMP on the P870 TM1 6 core CPU vs 4 core CPU and a Prema bios? You should be on that thing like candy man.

    Oh, and there is no battery boost on the Prema Bios powered P870 TM1 from HIDevolution @Donald@HIDevolution @Prema

    Do you want to see what happens if you try to forcibly disable battery boost on the GT73VR with a 195W TDP GTX 1070? (there's a "way" to do this if the battery is physically disconnected but i'm not getting to that):

    powerthrottle_nonos.png

    Please don't buy the GT73VR. Just don't.
    @Papusan @Mr. Fox

    If you don't take my advice, there will be some Norway homebred Reindeer and Moose waiting at your doorstep, combined with a vomiting snowman. Along with a mannequin and #1 in gaming poster !

    Please buy the P870 TM1. If my Throttlebook broke tomorrow I would be calling Donald on the phone right now making sure my new Prema powered High Performance System P870 TM1 would be all ready to go so Papusan would invite me over for Venison and beer one day!
     
  9. Papusan

    Papusan JOKEBOOKS = That sucks!! STAHP! Dont buy FILTH...

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    Looks like You've earned this one bro Falkentyne. Very very good advice:) And continue in the same track:vbthumbsup:
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Arrrrbol

    Arrrrbol Notebook Evangelist

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    Another thing worth mentioning... I believe you will void your warranty by disassembling an MSI laptop, whereas Eurocom, HIDevolution et cetera are all fine with it. I have also heard bad things about MSI's tech support (quite a few threads on the forums regarding that). Eurocom and HIDEvolution both have a presence here on the forums, and from what I've seen their tech support is pretty good. You can buy an MSI laptop through HIDevolution or other sellers though which would be better than buying from MSI directly.

    You would probably be happy with either of them, @Falkentyne is correct in saying the Coffee Lake CPUs will be significantly better than the Kaby Lake mobile ones in the MSI. If you have your heart set on an MSI, i'd wait for the Coffee Lake ones to come out. Otherwise the P870 is the only laptop currently available with Coffee Lake CPUs (that aren't those ****ty low powered U class ones at least).
     
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