Potential Clevo Buyer with Questions

Discussion in 'Sager and Clevo' started by xRedRose, Feb 1, 2018.

  1. xRedRose

    xRedRose Newbie

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    Hello everyone. This is my first post on this forum and I never thought it would be here since I'm an ROG guy. My GTX560M is starting to show its age (lol I know) and after a grueling amount of research I have discovered the Clevo Class of Laptops. However, I still have a couple of questions that I would still like some clarification on since I can't seem to find a concrete answer through all the threads that I have been reading.

    Quick Information
    What reseller am I going with if I finalize my decision?

    - Considering all the support and stories I read here on the forums, HIDEvolution is my top pick atm but that can change.
    What Clevo Model am I Interested in?
    - P870TM1-G or P870TM-G
    Budget?
    - $5000 USD
    Why not build a desktop?
    - Market for computer parts is currently messed up and there is no Full Tower case that catches my eye.
    - My living conditions also make it such that I need for some form of portability.
    - I love drawing attention with Bulky Desktop Replacements xD.

    Questions
    1. Is Prema Bios necessary, a necessity, or a suggested option? This is probably the most important question I need to ask because I read about all the things it opens up for the user in the BIOS. I've read from a large amount of users that you should not get a Clevo without this particular BIOS. This is important to me because it means that if after my warranty expires and I need to replace the motherboard for whatever reason, I will no longer have the Prema BIOS for when I get a replacement one. This is when I've read that to probably obtain the BIOS back, I would need to contact Prema and patiently wait (in queue) if he is willing to send me the BIOS to flash personally. This leaves me to wonder if I want to be at the mercy of this BIOS mod in the future. I sort of don't know if I want this kind of 'restriction' looming over me. This will also break the deal for me with obtaining a Clevo because if I go back with ROG or MSI, I know that I could easily obtain another motherboard and continue on with no hinderance. Now first let me say that I did get to read a little bit of what happened to Prema in my research and the BS that happened a while back. I won't say I understand the extent and severity of what happened. I have no ill will against Prema and for how this Mod is only distributed through PM's or the Prema Partners. I'm just trying to get some insight on if this is a risk I'm willing to take past warranty, or in other words - Can I make do with the Stock BIOS if it came down to it if I am unable to get in touch with Prema or the Prema Partners? This might sound like I'm making a big deal over something that shouldn't be, however when I owned my G74SX, flashing the BIOS was the riskiest thing I could ever do because the G74SX did not have a secondary BIOS for if the flash failed - IE I will brick the entire thing (which was common with my motherboard at the time). Now if I am able to obtain the Mod through Prema well past my warranty when i need it, I would still need to flash the BIOS on the new motherboard versus if I just got a motherboard and plugged it in with no need to update. So this Prema Mod and Stock BIOS issue is a bit of a big deal for me in terms of planning further ahead. Then again I could be letting my imagination run wild since I lived with the fear knowing that my laptop will die one day. What are your thoughts?
    2. I understand that all resellers are different with their policies and all that. I have a question more so for when I need to RMA a laptop. Of course on the initial purchase, I'm not going to fully deck it out with all the storage and ram. I will probably end up plugging in my preferred RAM and extra storage over time. However, there is always the possibility that I will need to RMA it. I have never done an RMA since I never had warranty on my Asus. If I needed to RMA a laptop, would I need to remove everything that I personally added and reinstall everything that was originally in it? This is assuming that the issue was not with anything I upgraded but with something else like the motherboard, or screen, and etc. I know for the big companies that they always have stickers in place saying that if I mess with anything, I automatically void the warranty. On most of the reseller warranties, I am just seeing that they will help with any issues pertaining to what I initially bought. So any extra hardware I add is obviously not covered but would I need to remove it all to send it back?
    3. I keep seeing the option for display calibration which will potentially enhance the image quality, especially colors. I wanted to ask if anyone knows if something like this has a negative or positive impact on color blind people (since I am Red Green colorblind). I understand the color and image quality can get 'richer' but I am also wondering if this calibration would go against me and I would be better off manually calibrating my screen to fit what I can see.

    I'm sorry if I take a while to respond to this thread or read everyone's responses due to work.

    A Little About How I Got Here
    (if you care xD)
    I initially made this account a while back to help keep my Asus G74SX-DH73 alive since I bought it with no warranty on Ebay. I wasn't really a computer guy and I couldn't let this computer fail during my time in college and I heavily used NotebookReview when I was researching the G74SX along with NotebookCheck. This was when I began to teach myself on how to completely disassemble and reassemble laptops, look for OEM parts to replace failed hardware, applying thermal paste to the CPU and GPU, messing with overclocking, learning how to install windows and new drives, etc.. 6 years later, I am proud that my G74SX is still alive and kicking thanks to quarterly maintenance and replaced or upgraded parts. However, its 2018 and my GTX 560M just can't handle a lot of the new titles coming out on even low settings (I know I survived all these years with that card). These past 2 weeks of researching have been grueling as I needed to update my knowledge on the current state of all the latest and greatest since the last generation I remember was Sandy Bridge and the GTX 580. Fast forwarding and a lot of headaches later, I found out that the Clevo chassis offers unparalleled customizability, support from resellers and users, upgradeability, and ,most importantly, easy maintenance. So here I am in search of possibly the next laptop that will survive me for hopefully the next 5 years+.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
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  2. XMG

    XMG Company Representative

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    Welcome! As you're quoting a price in USD and talking about a N. American reseller, I won't get involved in any of the "where should I buy from" questions.

    I have moderate-strong red green colour blindness too, also I do a lot of photography work on my laptop when on the move and apart from the red green thing I have excellent vision!

    To put my eyes into perspective (sorry, couldn't resist) so maybe you can compare with my comments below; at school I was a pretty good cricketer (for the Americans amongst us, that's the funny game that the British play inbetween drinking tea) apart from when the (red) ball was rolling on the groung towards me on the (yes, green) grass - the balls tended to dissappear and go straight past me. I found out a few years later when I was 12 or so, that there was a simple explination for that. Also snooker is a bit of an issue, unless it's really well lit. Also, becomming a pilot on the RAF was ruled out in my teens, which kind of sucked.


    Colour calibration doesn't enhance the image quality, it meerly adjusts the colours to more accurately represent themselves on the panel. I've written a number of posts on this topic but can't find them through the search function on here, apart from this one which isn't too comprehensive:

    http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...57-owners-lounge.801201/page-16#post-10468229

    On some panels, such as notably the B156HW01 v4 (which was a high gamut 95% panel from a few years ago), it generally had a pink/red tint to it - you could see this in whites, plus reds were over saturated. We had a few calibration profiles to insert as ICC into Windows, these are generic and not designed for individual users. So this is the first option - to use a generic profile which people might on average consider "improves" the panel accuracy or colour reproduction.

    Second is an individual calibration of your particular panel, with a calibration device to measure the panel itself - touched on in the above post.

    All that being said, I have always been able to tell when a panel has bad colour reproduction out of the box, plus those I have worked with on calibration have 90% the same opinion of panels and calibrations that I do. Unless you have very strong red green colourblindness, I'm pretty sure a stock calibration profile would improve the panel in the same way that it would for all those "normal" folks ;-)
     
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  3. xRedRose

    xRedRose Newbie

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    @XMG Thank for your input and your story. I too wanted to at least be a pilot but that's pretty hard if you are colourblind and can't find the runway (in my case @_@).

    That actually clarifies my confusion on the whole screen calibration idea. After reading your post, I think I will be opting out on the screen calibration option from resellers as I am not doing any professional photo or video work. I will probably opt for that generic stock calibration profile that you were mentioning and see how it turns out. If I get bored I can go with the second option of manually calibrating it to see how my eyes perceive the improved colour accuracy (as a learning experience for myself and for maybe future screens/monitors that I will purchase). I guess since this is the first time I've ever considered calibrating a screen, it's one of those "I won't completely understand how much it really affects me until I experience it" kind of ordeals.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
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  4. BeastsForever.TheDragon

    BeastsForever.TheDragon Notebook Evangelist

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    Answer to your questions
    1. Yes! Prema bios is necessary. Its the bestthing, even for non overclockers!
    2. It'd be better you ship the laptop as it was when you received it, i.e. same ram, same ssds/hdds!

    3. My dad is completely colourblind, and has never seen anything wierd with display calibrated displays( PS i calobrate them myself)
     
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  5. BeastsForever.TheDragon

    BeastsForever.TheDragon Notebook Evangelist

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  6. Phoenix

    Phoenix Super Tweaker

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    1) If you purchase a Clevo from a Prema Partner, in the unlikely event that you want to replace your motherboard, you could simply reach out to your Prema Partner to get a replacement right? Wherever you end up getting the motherboard from, your reseller will be the one to provide you with the Prema BIOS and do a remote flash for you so you're not at the mercy of anyone. You'd be their customer and they'd be obliged to serve you.

    2) Yes you're right, I wouldn't buy an Clevo laptop without the Prema BIOS. Period. I've owned 3 Clevo laptops and lemme tell you, the first one which was a P870DM always made me feel like I have a laptop with no soul. Not only did it throttle when both the CPU and GPU were used at the same time like in a benchmark or game, There was nothing to do in the BIOS other than change the date and boot mode. I reinstall Windows a lot and as you know, if you don't remove the other drives other than the main drive, then Windows will place your OS boot files on the 2nd or 3rd drive which could lead to slower boot times if that 2nd or 3rd drive wasn't an SSD or it can cause issues in back up, for example, if you backup your main drive using Macrium Reflect for example, then it backs up everything but the boot files won't be backed up since they're on another drive. Now when you come to restore your image in the future, you will run into problems if the original boot files were damaged on that 2nd or 3rd drive and since they're not included in the backup, you'd have to format again.

    Well, luckily, with the Prema BIOS, now you can selectively disable certain drives so that rather than having to open up the system and physically remove them then putting them back in once the installation is done, you can just disable them from the BIOS, install Windows, then re enable them again. Simple! that's just ONE example of the flexibility that that Prema BIOS offers.

    Another great thing which no one talks about is that it allows you to disable the Intel SGX (Software Guards Extension) which is only needed for developers who want to add security features to their apps This can cause erratic system behaviour such as mouse stuttering and what not. With the Prema BIOS, you can completely disable that useless feature.

    3) Speaking of HIDevolution, they offer in house CPU delidding which is a MUST on these desktop class CPUs since they get really hot, but with delidding, that brings the temps down anywhere between 15 to 20C vs a stock non de-lidded CPU. you can delid the CPU yourself but that would mean bye bye to the CPU warranty but if the reseller does it, then they cover the warranty of that CPU even if Intel denies it since they take the risk of delidding. Not a lot of resellers do that, I think only Obsidian PC in Europe does that but don't quote me on that.

    4) Speaking of warranty, just read these threads and you'd know my take against HIDevolution's awesome customer service and warranty:

    HIDevolution - The Best Company I ever dealt with
    HIDevolution's Warranty!
    HIDevolution - a benchmark for excellent customer service

    5) Don't forget if you email donald@hidevolution.com and tell him that system specs that you want and your NBR Forum username, you may be able to get a small discount as well.

    6) As for delidding, XMG has answered it so I won't comment there
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
  7. xRedRose

    xRedRose Newbie

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    Hello @BeastsForever.TheDragon and thanks for the response for my 1st and 2nd question. On the 3rd question, when you calibrate the display for your dad to use, was it something that he was fine with after adjusting and getting accustomed to your settings? Or do you mean, regardless of calibration that a colourblind person was able to use it completely fine, no problems what so ever from the get go?

    Hello @Phoenix. I've read quite a bit of your posts in many other threads while doing my research.

    1) I see so it seems that I'm starting to see that Prema BIOS is a very life changing modification for the Clevo that I'm interested in and yes it would be as simple as contacting the reseller for a new mobo and prema bios flash if I am still under warranty. However, what would happen if for some reason the reseller loses their Prema Partner status while I am also still within my warranty? Is Prema BIOS something obligated for them to provide me for when I bought it even if they lose that status after my purchase?

    2) I did not know that about the Prema BIOS. I used to do the method you described where I would open up my laptop and remove the drives manually. I did not know that was something that you could modify within a BIOS other than choosing where I wanted to boot. I'm starting to see why this Prema BIOS is so coveted. I think you've pretty much solidified my idea of purchasing from a Prema Partner.

    3) I recently heard of delidding (one of the new things I started reading about in my research from 2nd Gen Intel) so my practical knowledge of it is very minimal but I do understand that you can Delid and Relid or just keep it delidded. It seems that delidding is the most popular option. Is there a problem with relidding the cpu because I thought the point of delidding was to just to replace the paste between the CPU and the IHS but I'm starting to see that most just don't glue the IHS back on.

    4) Oh yes I have stumbled on those threads from previous ones and I got to admit, that type of customer service is almost hard for me to believe. Its something straight out of a dream, let alone above and beyond any form of customer service I would even dare to expect in this day and age.

    5) I was going to email @Donald@HIDevolution later this week on a couple questions I have regarding the specs (like the 120Hz AUO screen options because I do not understand why 1 has Gsync and the other does not but is a $175 upgrade) since I have yet to finalize anything. I was actually still on the fence before reading all the responses here.

    6) I was also reading the "Premo BIOS Questions" thread and I was wondering about how would I know if the BIOS for the clevo model that I want to purchase is available? If it wasn't available, would I still purchase it from a Prema Partner with a stock BIOS and then after they contact me with the released BIOS I would need to ship it back to them? How does that work?

    Again, sorry if it seems like I'm taking nearly a full day before responding to any post. I work in public transit and my hours are pretty random.
     
  8. BeastsForever.TheDragon

    BeastsForever.TheDragon Notebook Evangelist

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    He felt no difference between the calibrated and non calibrated displays! Just nothing!
    But things to note, he is completely colour blind, whereas you're blind on some colours!
    Display calibration is something depending on the display, some displays need to be calibrated red colour some yellow, or some pink. It depends on you and your display! However if you're partially colour blind, IMHO, get the display calibration( it literraly took me 3 weeks to calibrate mine as i was doing it for first time, so get yourpro reseller to do it!)
    Well, if you bought from a reseller while he was a prema partner and looses its status afterwards(which is just very unlikely to happen), i think @Prema will still provide you his bios!
    However if you're considering hidevolution, they were one of the very first partners of @Prema and just wont loose thier status just like *blam*.
    Nooo, delidding process involves sealing back the ihs using permatex!
    (As far as i know hidevolution and obsidian pc seals back the ihs).
    I dont know about the price, but go for the G sync!!
    Prema bios is made for all clevos!
    But as the desktop cpu laptops of clevo just got upgraded by new motherboards. @Prema is working on new bios everyday! However, it is JUST statedon hidevolution's laptop customization page that prema bios is(or will) be available on this laptop!
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
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  9. Phoenix

    Phoenix Super Tweaker

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    1) Even though this is VERY unlikely, it's not like the reseller would jut delete the Prema BIOS that they had shipped with your system or any updates the moment they cancel their deal with Prema, they would still be able to provide you with it for your laptop that you bought. Contact whomever you are buying from and verify this.

    2) Great

    3) What is CPU Delidding?

    to put it in layman's terms, Intel puts some crappy thermal paste between the actual CPU Die and the IHS (integrated heat spreader) or in other words, they put crappy thermal paste between the actual CPU and the metal heat spreader that you as a customer sees when you hold the CPU in your hands

    to improve this, you can remove the IHS by cutting through from all corners ensuring that you do not cut through the PCB of the CPU then removing the IHS. Next, you would remove the crappy thermal paste that Intel put and replace that with Liquid Ultra which is a far better thermal pate in terms of heat dissipation..

    you surely can do this yourself if you have the time and patience, but that would void your CPU warranty. HIDevolution is one of the very few system builders that can do this for you and not void your CPU warranty since they do it in-house.

    By delidding your CPU, you can expect temperature drops by up to 10C



    HIDevolution will stick the CPU back for you, the whole point of delidding is to get rid of the crappy pate job that Intel does and put a better one like Liquid Ultra for maximum heat dissipation, then it doesn't matter if you put the lid back or not although it would look much better and neater if it's back rather than having it sit loosely

    4) Indeed man

    5) The upgraded screen has no banding but is not GSYNC certified *yet* so would you rather deal with horizontal banding although it's not visible on normal viewing distance unless you stick your face to the screen which I'm sure most people don't? or would you give up G SYNC and rather not have any horizontal banding? that's up to you

    6) All Prema Partners get the BIOS for all the models that are going to have the Prema BIOS equally. Some models like currently the P6xxx series don't have it and no one knows if it will ever come due to stability concerns. Prema tests his BIOS's very well to ensure they work well for everyone. If at the time of buying a particular model, the Prema BIOS wasn't available to you and later on it did, then the reseller would connect to you remotely and do a remote flash.
     
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  10. xRedRose

    xRedRose Newbie

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    @Phoenix and @BeastsForever.TheDragon. Thank you so much for the informative and helpful information. I think I'm now pretty confident on getting a Clevo with a Prema Bios now as my next Laptop. Once I finalize which components and finish up some research on a few other smaller things I'll send @Donald@HIDevolution probably this Tuesday or Wednesday on the specs and I'll go from there. Cheers!
     
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