Porsche Taycan WORLD EXCLUSIVE genuine first drive & launch control testing 0-200kph | Fully Charged

Discussion in 'Motorized Vehicles' started by hmscott, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Update: Is Top Gear Misrepresenting 2019 Tesla Model S Performance, Using Results From 2017?

    Still not a production Porsche Taycan (Not till Jan 2020 Europe, Spring 2020 US), still not an even test - Taycan run vs some Random Tesla S, just more drag racing tit for tat fun so we don't forget about the $200K USD Porsche Taycan Turbo S. :)

    Porsche Taycan Turbo S vs Tesla Model S: DRAG RACE, FULL REVIEW AND VMAX | Top Gear
    Top Gear
    Published on Oct 30, 2019
    It’s the EV heavyweight battle you’ve been waiting for: In the green corner, the £140k, 750bhp Porsche Taycan Turbo S. In the red corner, the £100k, 754bhp Tesla Model S Performance Ludicrous+. To find out which is best, we test both on the road, drag strip, autobahn and at the charging station
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
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  2. Convel

    Convel Notebook Deity

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    No factory team present — just Top Gear journalists borrowing two production-spec vehicles. Of course, it would have been better if they did a best out of three, but the Porsche didn't get the jump on the Tesla, and the drag race was the least important part of this head-to-head comparison. I found it a decent review overall, landing on the important bottom line that these vehicles largely attract different buyers as their focus is different. They're both great in their own regard.

    One minor factual error: the Taycan also has folding seats. They split 40/20/40 when the car is specced with a middle-seat, and 60/40 without it.
    [​IMG]
    Also, while some journalists have commented that they find the rear seats more comfortable than in the Model S, it is indeed more cramped than the latter, largely due to the slooping roofline. I was curious about how positive journalists were to the rear seats at first, considering the space looked no roomier than in an Audi A7, and it turns out it was mostly due to early excitement. In the Taycan Facebook group for the Netherlands, a country with a tall population, there are a lot of people holding off for the Sport Turismo, which is well under way for next year.
     
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  3. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    It seems that Stuttgart Top Gear Tesla S vs Porsche Taycan presentation looks like "FAKE News"...Top Gear appears to have used 2 year old VBOX results from another race - and although the Tesla came in 2nd it also likely wasn't set up to run it's best - setting it up correctly would have shaved another .5-1.0 second off it's time - putting the Tesla S first in the end. See details below, check out the video for a summation, along with the articles, tweets, and comments.

    @elonmusk FAKE NEWS * Top Gear used OLD test Numbers for #Porsche Taycan Turbo S vs #Tesla Model S Race https://t.co/ZCd4VHU1GU pic.twitter.com/iFnSxMHcqN
    — DragTimes (@DragTimes) October 31, 2019

    2017-and-2019-same-dataB.jpg
    Is Top Gear Misrepresenting 2019 Tesla Model S Performance, Using Results From 2017?
    by Dr. Maximilian Holland, October 31st, 2019
    https://cleantechnica.com/2019/10/3...-model-s-performance-using-results-from-2017/

    The Ultimate Drag Race: Porsche Taycan vs. Tesla Model S (Top Gear Video)
    October 31st, 2019 by Guest Contributor
    https://cleantechnica.com/2019/10/3...te-drag-race-porsche-taycan-vs-tesla-model-s/

    Update: Is Top Gear Misrepresenting 2019 Tesla Model S Performance, Using Results From 2017?

    FAKE NEWS * Top Gear used OLD test Numbers for Porsche Taycan Turbo S vs Tesla Model S Race
    DragTimes
    Oct 30, 2019
    In this video I go over my thoughts on the Taycan vs Model S video by Top Gear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F28i1...

    Top Gear didn't even get numbers for the Tesla in this race, they just copied old VBOX results from an old test here: https://www.topgear.com/car-news/top-...


    Lots of comments in the DragTimes video...

    VRj 15 hours ago (edited)
    "In the Top Gear video at 1:08 Tesla in a "range mode". Range Mode: When turned on in an All-Wheel Drive vehicle, torque distribution between the motors is optimized to maximize range."

    THEfindmaster 13 hours ago
    "Take a look on the license plate, its registred before Raven was available in the UK. aka its not even a Raven"

    Morten Krogh 18 hours ago
    "But I don't think TopGear tested the Raven. They say in the video the topspeed is 155mph, but the Raven is 163mph I think."

    UltraStoat 11 hours ago
    "Top Gear loses a lot of credibility here. Shame that an outfit like that can’t have half the integrity of DragTimes."

    Patrick O 6 hours ago
    "It is just pathetic how well funded media outlets think they can get away with lying. Reviewers on youtube have more integrity, they will review a car and if they edit things, they will post unedited versions to back it up. Top gear fakes their video and fakes the numbers. The taycan numbers are no doubt straight from porsche, so I doubt anyone at a real drag strip even hits them. Meanwhile we have videos on youtube by non-professionals beating the times top gear claims the taycan had."

    R 100 21 hours ago
    "Years ago Top Gear also tried to make Tesla look bad by scripting a failure in and lied about it's range, look it up."

    Jack Kello 13 hours ago
    Woow! couldn't believe that top gear would be this sneaky!

    sasikar regmi‏ @regmeeee
    @BBC_TopGear @DragTimes @elonmusk
    Why fake drag number on Model S vs Tycan??
    Why not do ludicrous Plus on Model S??
    Why 0 to 60 takes 2.68 sec?
    Why not have fair race?
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=lE9eJtG8jaU …

    Do better Top Gear!

    #fakeNews #TeslaModelS #TycanTurboS #BBCTopGear
    https://twitter.com/regmeeee/status/1189782184502145025?s=20

    EIL0lmSWwAAlB44.jpg large.jpg

    Maybe some new Nurburgring numbers from Tesla soon?

    TESLA MODEL S PLAID SPIED TESTING ON THE NURBURGRING
    Carspotter Jeroen
    Oct 31, 2019
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
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  4. Convel

    Convel Notebook Deity

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    The lack of transparency on Top Gear's part did everyone a disservice — themselves, Tesla, and Porsche. But, while a 2019 Model S Raven may indeed have come out on top had the test been conducted differently, you can't hand pick the very best result from a slick drag strip with prep work and compare it to an unprepped Taycan Turbo S running down an old runway and say that that's the difference in acceleration between the two. Both cars need to run side by side, and we'll get to see both running simultaneously at a proper drag strip in the future, I'm sure. In further defense of the Tesla, the Taycan runs wider tyres than the Model S, so the latter would have a bigger negative impact from the coarse runway in the video.

    Since the video created such a stirr, here are some official responses:
    Top Gear Magazine has also drag raced the 2019 Raven, so that's them saying they haven't been able to beat the best recorded result by a 2017 P100D Performance using the latest model. Sounds sketchy to say the least...
    https://jalopnik.com/elon-musk-is-beefing-with-top-gear-over-drag-race-betwe-1839509967

    I think we would both bet on the 2019 Raven taking the 0-60 win under most conditions, especially following the +50 HP software update. The Model S continues to deliver fantastic drag racing performance value. I still find the Taycan holds its own in categories that matter the most to Porsche buyers, if they've come to terms with the trade-offs of current BEV tech.
     
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  5. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Awesome summation of the situation and responses, thanks for the info. :)

    "The figures for the Tesla that we published alongside the story were the fastest figures we had ever recorded for a Model S, achieved on a previous occasion."

    Top Gear could have just said in the presentation / article, "hey we lost the vbox results for the day", "here's the fastest "other" results we have on archive" and that would have been that.

    "Top Gear Magazine has also drag raced the 2019 Raven, so that's them saying they haven't been able to beat the best recorded result by a 2017 P100D Performance using the latest model. Sounds sketchy to say the least... - @covel"

    So TG should have used those vbox results instead of the older lower scored vbox results to be fair, but they would have shown the Tesla ahead, while the video clearly showed the Taycan winning, again Top Gear should have said "sorry we lost the vbox results" and TG could have had another follow up article and video.

    Glad it's all out there so quickly, hopefully Top Gear will realize times have changed and it's all out there for people to cross check, and with plenty of time and motivation the truth will be found and known. Due to the internet "plenty of time" is now down to minutes and hours instead of days, weeks, or months.

    I'm sure the Taycan teams are also watching carefully and can integrate new changes to their builds and software to continue to stay ahead as needed, same goes for Tesla.

    Elon is probably ecstatic - he's been waiting more than a decade for car makers to step up and start competing earnestly with his Tesla electric cars. :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2019
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  6. Convel

    Convel Notebook Deity

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    Actually, I doubt Porsche is willing to give their cars OTA performance upgrades. This is their first OTA-capable vehicle, so I could be wrong, but I can't see what Tesla is doing fitting in with their mentality and strategy. They spent so much in terms of resources to determine what the Taycan's powertrain and batteries could comfortably do, as well as determining how the car fits into their current portfolio. Of course the Taycan will evolve, like you say, but I would expect another lengthy development process for that to happen. We'll definitely see improvement with the next generation/facelift, and possibly also in the shape of a hotter GT-model in some years, if there's demand for a more track-oriented EV from the company. GT cars are typically 911 and 718 territory, but there's a Panamera mule indicating that could change. Hopefully a leap in battery technology has allowed lighter BEVs by then. Legacy automakers keep speaking up solid-state batteries, but most have been too optimistic in their time-frame estimates. When that time comes, our phones and notebooks will get better too. :)

    Anyway, it's important to remember that 0-60 & 1/4-mile times don't tell the full story of what makes a good sports car. It's why so few car enthusiasts with deep pockets would swap their petrol-burning weekend warriors for an EV, and why the Plaid-based Model S next year will be an important step forward for Tesla. ;)
     
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  7. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Tesla has adopted the continuous development / release cycle popularized by Google and other companies, and I'm sure Porsche could benefit from the same.

    Getting the user involved in the excitement of a stream of updates with new features, bug fixes, and entertainments gives the owner a sense of being a part of their cars growth and they can see constant improvement and value in maintaining that connection with their car's maker.

    This also integrates uploading data to the cloud for the maker which is valuable for catching problems in the field, seeing how the battery and charging cycles are progressing - not only for the hardware but for their software - which allows for quick upgrades for tuning the charging / power delivery for better battery life and performance.

    This can also be a vital link in the case of an emergency - Tesla unlocks battery capacity to use during evacuations. Tesla can also provide additional support in times of need, like when you run out of power or the car has been stolen - not sure about during / after an accident now but in the future Tesla AI could provide automatic control of the car / battery for safety.

    Being a developer, progressing through many generations of styles and forms of software support it only seems natural for Tesla's OTA to be a crucial part of the product value.
     
  8. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Dragtimes update with response from Top Gear and more...

    FAKE NEWS CONFIRMED * Top Gear & Elon Musk Respond * This is what a Tesla Model S Really Runs
    DragTimes
    Published on Nov 3, 2019
    I respond to Top Gears response to my last video as well as show just how easy it is to run 10's in the 1/4 mile on a regular street surface.


    Now You Know weighs in with Top Schmear... :)

    Tesla Time News - Top Schmear
    Now You Know
    Published on Nov 4, 2019
    Welcome back for episode 165 of Tesla Time News!!!! Stay tuned for Tesla Time News every Monday!
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019

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