Porsche Taycan WORLD EXCLUSIVE genuine first drive & launch control testing 0-200kph | Fully Charged

Discussion in 'Motorized Vehicles' started by hmscott, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    What matters is range, range, range. That's all that matters when it comes down to it. $/mile of range.

    Some lap times mean nothing when you are at 15% charge and all there is around you are Tesla Network Charging stations for miles as far as you can drive - it's like "water water everywhere, but not a drop to drink", "no charging for you!" Lap time that. ;)

    Porsche built the wrong car to sell to the EV market.

    $151k is a crazy price, as is $185k, that's just insane when for literally half the price you can get a Ludicrous Mode Tesla S, or 3 Tesla 3's.

    Porsche blew it on this their first battery powered sportscar. It should have weighed around half as much, cost at least 1/3 as much, and gone over 330mi.

    Just like the Jaguar iPace, Porsche doesn't get it. They aren't selling a gasoline burning sports car that gets ~10mpg, they are selling a battery power car that needs range + charging opportunities - why didn't Porsche go to Tesla to participate in the Tesla charging network?

    Here's a good round view of why the Taycan will fail, just like the iPace that is now getting multiple discounts to drum up sales:

    The Porsche Taycan Will Be A Flop
    HyperChange TV
    Published on Sep 5, 2019
    Porsche has revealed its flagship EV, the Taycan, a sedan that starts at $151K. Although it looks awesome, the specs pale in comparison to the Model S, for a significantly higher price. Because of the weak performance and un-incentivized dealer network, I think it will be a flop ... let me know what you thoughts are below!


    Gone are the times for expensive EV's, those customer have Tesla's. Now's the time to sell affordable EV's priced under the Tesla 3. That's where car makers can make inroads into the EV market.

    Oh yeah, **TURBO**!! Pfffft!!! :D

    Elon Musk‏ Verified account @elonmusk
    "Um @Porsche, this word Turbo does not mean what you think it does"
    12:35 PM - 5 Sep 2019
    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1169695493594574848
    https://twitter.com/Dictionarycom/status/1169700840984252416

    Here's another balanced view between the Taycan and Tesla models...

    Tesla Model S Vs. Porsche Taycan - Can You Even Compare Them? | Vlog 332
    CarsAndKyle
    Published on Sep 5, 2019


    I wonder how many of the 30,000 that reserved a Taycan thought they'd be paying $151k-$185k -> $200k+ ? I wonder what the commitment level is now that the pricing has been released?

    Here's some Porsche fans, having 2nd thoughts...

    Buying The New Porsche Taycan! (Help Us Spec It)
    JR Garage
    Published on Sep 5, 2019
    Last year we reserved the all new 2020 Porsche Taycan. This is a 100% fully electric supercar set to take on the 2020 Tesla Roadster and other top performing EVs. The Porsche unveil just occurred, revealing all the specs and details about the car. Power, range, price. There are quite a few pros, but there are indeed some cons to this $200K electric Porsche which we discussed in this video. Please help us spec this car, turbo, turbo s, color, options, etc! Would you buy this car?


    If the Porsche Taycan can't outperform the Tesla S "Family" car, how do you think it will do against the Tesla Roadster 2.0? Tesla Sports car vs. Porsche Sports car, Telsa wins. :)

    Those guys said they could buy a fighter jet for $255k, and the Taycan S with all options is $241k!

    And, the Telsa Roadster is supposed to be around $200k-$250k, so... maybe Elon will get motivated to undercut the Taycan to deliver a Roadster 2.0 for Taycan Turbo S price range, and bump up delivery... it could happen so quickly.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
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  2. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    In this video @ 01:10 the Porsche CEO let slip that Porsche employee's were asked to give up future raises and "invest" in the Taycan project - to make the employee's fund it because it was so expensive.

    What???!!! Porsche / VW Group earn more money than they know what to do with every year, year after year.

    Porsche used the Taycan project as an excuse to take their employee's lunch money years into the future. Rather than make the investment with the Groups money Porsche financed it off of the backs of their employee's.

    It's a big gamble that shouldn't have been taken with their employee's money, and I doubt it's going to be initially successful - so there's no payback to their employee's - given how contracts by lawyers are written if the success comes much later they will find some way to not pay back the employee's and Porsche / VW Group will instead pocket the gains.

    Investing in the future of the electric Porsche should provide some direct profit sharing back to the employee's, right?. Why didn't the Porsche CEO mention that? I am assuming the employee's had no choice but to "invest" if they wanted to keep their jobs.

    Porsche Unveils $90,000 Taycan All-Electric Car
    Bloomberg Technology
    Published on Sep 4, 2019
    Sep.04 -- Porsche picked Niagara Falls, a Chinese wind farm and a solar site in Germany to unveil its first all-electric sports car, underscoring the new Taycan’s central role in turning parent Volkswagen AG into the world’s leading seller of battery-powered vehicles. Porsche Chief Executive Officer Oliver Blume speaks with Bloomberg's Matt Miller at an auto show in Neuhardenberg, Germany.


    I love how Bloomberg couldn't believe the Porsche Taycan starting price was $140,000 and mis-reported the starting price as $90k in the title. When the interviewer quoted $90k to the Porsche CEO (@ 03:00) the CEO danced around without quoting the $151k/$185k price - but he did let slip that the lowest entry level price might be $100k euro ($110k USD) - not now, but far into the future.

    More on the promissory note, it's $280 million in 2018, and it seems to be a small drop in a $6B bucket for what is really being invested:
    porsche promissary note of 280 million.JPG
    https://newsroom.porsche.com/dam/jcr:ba704af8-c98e-4008-aff3-7e4f29b28b76/Porsche AG – Annual and Sustainability Report 2018 – Performance.pdf

    Top Gears treatment of the reveal, where they get the pricing wrong too - $115k / $140k, who the heck in Porsche was responsible for giving out pricing at these events??:

    FIRST LOOK: Porsche Taycan Turbo | Top Gear
    Top Gear
    Published on Sep 4, 2019
    The Taycan isn’t just another new EV, it’s potentially a nail in the coffin of petrol-fuelled performance cars. Can Porsche pull it off? Well, let Top Gear Magazine’s Jack Rix take you through all the nooks and crannies of the £116k all-electric, Porsche Taycan Turbo.


    TFL at the Niagara Falls reveal, where "Tesla" began AC Power distribution...

    Is The New EV Porsche Taycan Turbo S Faster Than a Tesla In Ludicrous Mode?
    The Fast Lane Car
    Published on Sep 4, 2019
    The Tesla Model S in Ludicrous Mode will run the quarter mile in under 11 seconds. But how fast is the new Porsche Taycan Turbo S. Can it keep up with the Tesla or will it destroy it on the track. In this video we let you know all of the important numbers that Porsche is bringing to the race track.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
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  3. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Another potential Taycan buyer baulks at the pricing - he configured it starting with the base model @ $185k (the one that's almost as fast as the Tesla S Raven) + $20k in options to over $200k, and that's double the cost of the fastest Tesla S.

    As the "President of My Tesla Adventure" I think he speaks for many that were interested in the Taycan before the pricing and performance details were released by Porsche.

    He mentions that at one point Porsche suggested the Taycan price would start at $85k, and now the reality is the Taycan Turbo S is $185k and that isn't price competitive with the Tesla S at $99k.

    High performance EV fans will continue to satisfy their desires with Tesla S Raven at 1/2 the cost of the Porsche Taycan - until the Tesla Roadster 2.0 arrives @ 200k, and then those EV fans that can afford to spend 200k+ will have waited for the Tesla Roadster 2.0.

    Starts at 02:10

    Tesla Model S vs. Porsche Taycan: Fan of Both Cars Speaks Out
    E for Electric
    Published on Sep 8, 2019
    Eli Burton, the president of My Tesla Adventure and a fan of both Tesla Model S and the newly unveiled Porsche Taycan, shares his thought on whether or not he will be adding Porsche Taycan to his Tesla Model S ride experience, in his weekly segment "Supercharged with Eli Burton"
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
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  4. Convel

    Convel Notebook Deity

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    Unfortunately, Tesla may not be trying for a lap time after all. They enrolled for the Industry Pool sessions, where lap timing is prohibited. Thermal endurance limitation, perhaps? What's cool is that Nico Rosberg will be at the wheel.

    https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cu...del-s-nurburgring-lap-attempt-porsche-taycan/
    It's an important metric, and one where Tesla undoubtably has a strong lead over the others. No one thought the Taycan would beat any Tesla in this regard, yet there's still a lot of interest in the car.
    The charging situation is not the same in Europe. While Superchargers are still a major advantage of owning a Tesla, open fast-charging networks like IONITY are growing rapidly. The percentage of weekend racers eyeing a Taycan over a GT3 RS is probably miniscule, but Porsche needs to flaunt their cars' track capability and uphold their heritage. I think a lot of customers and fans approve of their mission.
    Whether BEV, PHEV or ICE, people choose their cars for different reasons. It was Tesla who proved that there is a market for something more expensive than the EV competition at the time when they introduced the Model S. I doubt the bean counters at Porsche, Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Pininfarina, Rimac, or Bentley would greenlight EV investments if there wasn't a strong enough case for expensive electric cars.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-s-vs-porsche-taycan-who-wins-no-contest-2019-9
    The Rimac C_Two, a two-seater electric hypercar, weighs 1,950 kg, which is a far cry from half as much as the Turbo S' 2,295 kg. I agree it would have looked better if it was lighter than the Model S Performance, but I doubt you're going to notice the 45 kg (99 lb) difference in a car that's well North of two tonnes. Porsche undercutting Tesla wouldn't have made any sense. A stronger range would have been a plus, but who drives 279 miles without as much as a restroom break? Range anxiety is getting replaced by charging anxiety, at least in Europe. Porsche responded to that change in mentality by producsing the fastest charging EV out there, and it will get significantly faster in the coming years.

    If you combine your ideals of half the weight, 1/3 the price, and over 330 miles, from one of the most iconic sports car makers no less, you're looking at pure fantasy. Maybe one day in the distant future, but the battery tech isn't there yet.
    The Jaguar iPace tends to get decent reviews and I see a lot of them on the roads. It's said to feel sporty and fairly luxurious, while undercutting the e-Tron and EQC. In its home country (UK), as I understand it, fast charging stations are few and far between, but the situation is not as bleak in every market. Also, not everyone needs more than a daily commuter and city car, where charging at home will do just fine.

    As the Taycan has yet to reach customers, or been properly handed over to journalists, it's much too soon to conclude it will be a flop.
    Oh snap, we better tell Mercedes to cancel the EQS before they lose more money! And Tesla to not build a 2nd Roadster after all! As luck would have it, some Tesla customers are willing to buy from the upstart that is Porsche.

    https://www.carscoops.com/2018/12/upcoming-porsche-taycan-high-demand-tesla-owners/

    Make no mistake: Porsche is an exclusive, low-volume marque. They're pretty serious about electrification, not lowering their standards or profit margins to become mass-market and take on Tesla.
    Some will undoubtedly fall through. I spoke to sales reps at two different Porsche Centers prior to the Taycan unveiling, and they noted that a few reservation holders either were the kind who reserves a lot of different electric vehicles so that they can decide once the details are known, or seemed to have unrealistic expectations when it comes to pricing with options, but that they expect no shortage of demand as others will step up to take their place on the list. Sales numbers, when we get that far, will tell whether they were right or wrong.

    What I'm curious about is whether these reservation holders were told to either withdraw their deposit or spec a Turbo or Turbo S, or if they were given the option to wait for the more affordable Carrera 4S that will be configurable later this year.
    How do you define vehicle performance? We all know the Tesla Model S P100D is the current 0-60 EV king, but surely there are other performance metrics also of interest? As well as how long a car can deliver said performance?

    The new Tesla Roadster will indeed be interesting, and I look forward to seeing it in its final form. Elon Musk has promised SpaceX thrusters that could make the car fly, and acceleration that defies current tyre limitations, all at a base price of $200. Undeniably a fantasic value propositon based on what's been said, but the lack of agressive aero could limit track appeal, and the fact that it's a two-seater means it's not a direct competitor to the Taycan. In due time, you can compare it to the all-electric 718. One size does not fit all, both when it comes to ICE vs BEV, and vehicle segment, as well as brand appeal.
    While $90k isn't official yet, it's a good estimate for the starting price of the Taycan — one that has been thrown around a few times. I don't think they used the number in disbelief, but because the currently unveiled Turbo and Turbo S won't make up the biggest chunk of sales. The Carrera S, Carrera 4S, and possibly GTS, will.
    You're confusing currencies. He said pounds, not dollars, and the Taycan Turbo does indeed start at a little over £115k.

    https://www.porsche.com/uk/modelstart/all/?modelrange=taycan
    The Turbo S will do 0-60 in 2.6 seconds, 0-124 mph in 9.8 seconds, and a 10.8-second quarter-mile. The P100D 'Raven' only has an official 0-60 time, as far as I can tell. When the Turbo S reaches customers, we'll get to see actual drag races against the P100D.

    https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-ca...-porsche-taycan-debut-photos-specs-msrp-tech/
    At no point was the top-of-the-line Turbo S said to start at $85k. And again, Porsche neither can nor need to match Tesla pricing. The former is an exclusive manufacturer, with a rich list of options (including paint to sample), a strong racing pedigree, and distinctive handling characteristics. Tesla, while offering great value for the specifications, has a very short options list, because volume is way more important to them. No racing pedigree what so ever, and you don't find car journalists going on and on about how connected they feel to the car and the way it handles. Is everyone willing to give up everyday luxuary and superior craftmanship to get the best drag strip times for their money when they shop for an EV? No. Some are, but the point is that these cars are not direct competitors, even though their straight line performance is fairly similar.
     
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  5. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    @Convel

    The choice of non Porsche owners for a Porsche EV is based on the cost vs range at it's most basic requirement, next the ability to recharge for long trips, and so far the Taycan Turbo / Turbo S is far outside the acceptable cost/range in comparison to the Tesla S and other EV's.

    The only other customers for the Taycan Turbo and Turbo S are Petrol Porsche enthusiasts - not EV Porsche enthusiasts as they are going to grade / evaluate the Taycan's on their EV specifications without consideration for Porsche caché.

    When the price bandied around was 85k-90k there were lots of takers, 30,000 signed up without knowing the pricing.

    Now with the price revealed as starting at $151k / $185k - with around $200k as the "well equipped" specification, I haven't seen anyone come forward with any excitement in finalizing the purchase of a Taycan Turbo / Turbo S.

    Hopefully Porsche will bring out the Carrera S, Carrera 4S, and possibly GTS models quickly, and includes those in their count of 30k production, otherwise I think they are going to come up around 200k+ short in orders.

    And, my goals in what Porsche should have done are reflected in the long history of car building experience Porsche has built up, and the $6B+ investment.

    Perhaps Porsche should have waited another 5-10 years?

    We aren't all going to be saved by the emissions reductions created by the Porsche Taycan's built, we need 100's of millions of real EV cars affordable by everyone to attain that goal.

    Otherwise Porsche is simply continuing to fleece the fat cat's - taking advantage of the situation in the only way they seem to know - overbuilding and overcharging (pun intended) and making hay while the climate change / EV fever reigns.

    If Porsche believed in EV's as a way to save our future, they wouldn't have built the Taycan, Porsche would have used their century of skills to build an EV we can all buy.

    Building EV's is not about preserving "Porsche's Legacy" moving forward, it's about preserving mankind moving forward.

    Both Taycan Turbo's are an insult to the intent of EV's, an insult to humanity, Porsche shouldn't waste precious limited resources making them or selling them, and I hope no one buys one.

    Hopefully sales will falter quickly so as to not encourage Porsche to continue with Taycan Turbo / Turbo S Production, and instead Porsche can regroup and build out a sensible "Turbo" EV under $100k, or even better a "non-Turbo" Porsche EV under $50k.

    Then Porsche would be showing leadership instead of embarrassing themselves by attempting to fleece rich fools of their money. $151k-185k -> $200k out the door isn't anything but a cash grab of "Porsche" proportions.

    Porsche could have taken the upwards of $7B investment and used it to purchase about 75,000 Tesla S's or about 200,000 Tesla 3's - I'm sure Tesla would have given Porsche a discount for such a large purchase - and Porsche could have then handed them out for free to German's to clean up their environment, a much more fitting use of the money than building 20,000 overpriced boat anchors.

    For $7B I'm sure Tesla would have been happy to build a "Porsche" Gigafactory in Germany and handed it over to Porsche to build and give away Porsche badged "Tesla's" with cute little "Turbo" badges on them.

    That's actually something the whole VW Group could get behind and fund free EV's built in a VW Group Tesla built Gigafactory along side the German government to replace for free all of the diesel and gasoline vehicles in Germany and surrounding regions. What a great way to begin to solve the pollution problem once and for all. That would show real leadership and commitment.

    I mean it sounds wild, but think about how many 100's of thousands of diesel cars were built and abandoned at a loss to VW Group world wide, not to mention all the fines and penalties they are still suffering?

    VW Group could make EV's instead and give those away in atonement for their evil ways. It would at least be a good start.

    Then they could go back to fleecing rich fools with overpriced gold plated EV sleds.:)
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  6. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    As I've already said, the Tesla 3 and Tesla S are family cars, not race cars. Just because the Tesla Raven can repeatedly smoke a Taycan Turbo S time after time doesn't mean the Tesla's can hold up on a racetrack, any more than they can be considered 4x4 off-roaders, because Tesla's aren't that they are family cars.

    The Tesla Roadster is another folly of wasted resources and I don't think anything of it myself. Another vehicle to separate the unwary from their hard earned cash. And another bad EV to take attention away from what we should be focused on, affordable EV's.

    We have real problems that need real solutions in play right now, we don't have time for Porsche to dally around for 10-15 years like Tesla, we need EV's out there now for everyone.

    We don't need $50k or certainly not $100k+++ EV's, we need to stop wasting time giving them attention and focus on real solutions now.
     
  7. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    The focus on silly lap times and the repeatability of 100% power use to justify the excessive build and cost is a ridiculous subterfuge - as always with these overpriced "performance" cars this is done to convince and extract the most money possible from the "customer". Nobody really needs that excessive performance or overbuild costs for actual use.

    Building that excessive Taycan costs $200k, how about Porsche focus on building to the $50k or less price point? What kind of engineering expertise does Porsche have that can focus on solving that problem? 100 years+ of expertise should do it just fine.

    Here's a view into the new Porsche Taycan factory, what a terrible waste of resources is all I see. Why couldn't Porsche have woken up earlier and made many many more less expensive EV's from the start? Sigh.

    Electric Porsche Taycan Factory
    DPCcars
    Published on Sep 9, 2019
    Production of the first customer vehicles will begin as scheduled on 9 September 2019. Assembly will take place in a “factory of the future” – flexible, networked and using 4.0 production technology. It is a further step towards the “Zero Impact Factory” with no negative environmental impact: production of the Porsche Taycan with zero-emission powertrain at the Zuffenhausen site will be CO₂-neutral. In addition to using electricity from renewable sources and biogas to generate heat, the new production buildings are designed to be extremely energy-efficient. Further examples are the electrically powered logistics vehicles, the use of waste heat in the paint shop, the greening of roof areas and a continuous and holistic approach to other potential resource savings.

    The construction project included several individual subprojects, each itself with considerable scope. The result was a body shop, a paint shop, a plant for the production of electric motors and components, a vehicle assembly hall and the connecting transport technology. A total of 35,000 tonnes of steel were used for the new production facility – as much as for 140,000 Coupé bodies of the 991 generation of the 911 model line. The total area of the buildings amounts to 170,000 square metres.


    This guy is yet another confused potential customer... totally missing the fallacy of the overkill build and the resulting unnecessary overpriced costs.

    Lew Later Reacts To The Porsche Taycan Unveiling
    LaterClips
    Published on Sep 6, 2019
    Clip from Lew Later (Episode - The Samsung Galaxy Razr Fold) - https://youtu.be/6mnnq8GIpCU


    Julien 11 hours ago (edited)
    "@ 3:51 "It will charge faster than a Tesla." The v3 250kW chargers are able to charge the model 3 100 kilometres in 4 minutes."

    IDK why no one else has mentioned this, but I swear that the Taycan shape - minus the vents and rear lip - look like a slightly modded Tesla S more than a Panamera. Especially in White.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  8. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    Well, that didn't take long. There is a new recent example of a car company that did the right thing their first time when re-issuing a new brand model after many years of being dormant - similarly to the opportunity Porsche had with their first Electric car in many years.

    The Land Rover Defender, as described by Doug DeMuro has succeeded by pricing its new beginning at $49k, instead of pricing itself the same as the Mercedes G-Wagon competition @ around $125k.

    The first 911 progenitor was the 1963 Porsche 356C 2 Door Coupe priced at $3940, in 2019 dollars that would be about $33k.

    Porsche could have followed their own winning formula and designed their first electric car in many years to debut at a similar affordable price point @ $33k - $50k instead of producing the Taycon electric car so far out of reach of most people at $151k - $185k => or $200k well equipped.

    It's heartening that Land Rover has figured out the winning formula.

    I'll let Doug describe his joy and surprise at Land Rover making the choice to bring out the new Defender as an affordable yet capable entry level off-road vehicle.

    Here's What I Think of the New Land Rover Defender
    More Doug DeMuro
    Published on Sep 11, 2019
    The new Land Rover Defender is here. A lot of people have asked me what I think of the new 2020 Defender, so I'm sharing my thoughts. Soon I'll be able to show you all the quirks and features of the next Land Rover Defender.


    If only Porsche would follow Land Rovers lead and develop an affordable Porsche electric car.
    http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-new-land-rover-defender.830366/
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
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  9. hmscott

    hmscott Notebook Nobel Laureate

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    To me the Tesla S looks better going around the track :)

    Porsche Taycan and Tesla Model S on Nürburgring Nordschleife
    Monkeyheadtpc
    Published on Sep 12, 2019
    Videos are by Automotive Mike - I just cut them together at the point where they are all at the hight of the 7th red marking on the tracks right border.
    Keep in mind that these are only 4 random videos that happen to be from the same part of the track. You can't really infer anything from it. We don't know how much they were pushed or what version they are. So keep it civilized in the comment section.


    TESLA MODEL S IS GOING FOR THE PORSCHE TAYCAN NÜRBURGRING RECORD!!
    Automotive Mike
    Published on Sep 12, 2019
    During the Industry Pool at the Nürburgring I have filmed the Tesla Model S doing some laps on track. (Too bad only twice..)

    Elon Musk has just shed more light into the aggressive Model S that was spotted yesterday near the famous German track. Apparently, it’s a ‘chassis prototype’ fitted with their new ‘Plaid’ powertrain, which will sit above the existing 100D with the Ludicrous mode in the model’s range.

    Tesla’s CEO also said that the red car with the wide arches is fitted with seven seats, adding that they are gunning for the fastest seven-seat car record.

    A similar prototype managed to break the record for the fastest four-door sedan around Laguna Seca, beating the Jaguar XE SV Project 8 by nearly a second with a 1:36.555 lap. However, the company doesn’t claim that record, as track officials were not present during Tesla’s test.

    The new ‘Plaid’ powertrain features three electric motors, instead of the two in the P100D “Ludicrous”. Musk opted for these names for Tesla’s powertrains as a reference to Mel Brooks’ classic Spaceballs movie.

    More details about this new powertrain will be announced soon, with the company saying that they will offer it in the Model S, Model X, as well as the new Roadster, but not in the Model 3 or Model Y. Musk also said that the final production examples of the Plaid-powered Teslas are still a year away from launch.

    As for the Model S ‘chassis prototype’, our spy shots show that it’s been fitted with larger wheels, stickier tires and the necessary wider fenders to cover them, as well as a new lip spoiler for the tailgate. Upgraded brakes and new suspension settings are also present, while our spies, who spotted the car again today doing its first laps, told us that the car was fitted with a roll cage as well (obviously, for safety reasons).

    Yesterday’s report said that Tesla might attempt its Nurburgring lap record on September 21, while Germany’s Auto Motor und Sport confirms the same date and adds that the EV maker has booked a second slot on September 25.


    For those of you that haven't seen Space Balls and don't get the Ludicrous or Plaid references :)

    Spaceballs - They've gone into plaid!
    dunnydore05
    Published on Dec 19, 2008
    Just a bit faster than ludicrous speed


    It looks like Tesla is specing out a new faster Tesla S to even further outpace Porsche for 1/2 the price.

    Tesla Model S Lap at Laguna Seca Makes It The Fastest Sedan
    DPCcars
    Published on Sep 12, 2019
    Tesla Model S lapped Laguna Seca during advanced R&D testing of the Model S Plaid powertrain and chassis prototype. (That’s a second faster than the record for a four-door sedan) That appears to reference to the 1:37.54 lap time set by the Jaguar XE SV Project 8 almost exactly a year ago.


    Bob C 4 hours ago
    "For the love of gawd man, it's "plahd" from Spaceballs. Not "played.""

    Here's some more stills of the Tesla S vs Porsche Taycan on the Nürburgring track. Given the Tesla S is a "Family" car - 7 seater coming? - it's fun to see it at 1/2 the price make the Porsche Taycan at $200k+ look silly. Also fun to think that Tesla might release a "Plaid" speed demon Tesla S along with the "Plaid" speed Tesla Roadster 2.0 next year.

    Tesla Model S Spotted Lapping the Legendary Nurburgring
    Sky Canada
    Published on Sep 12, 2019
    Thursday, September 12, 2019
    Tesla Model S Spotted Lapping the Legendary Nurburgring | Sky Canada
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
  10. Convel

    Convel Notebook Deity

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    Yes, it's now clear what Tesla is doing at the Nürburgring. They're not benchmarking the current Model S — they're responding to Porsche and previewing a more focused version, which will be available for sale in about a year. That's a much better tactic than trying to make the current Model S seem track-ready, and I welcome Tesla diversifying their line-up. The Model S still has some goodies the Model 3 doesn't, like better noise isolation and better air filtration. It's about time they're showing it some love again.

    https://insideevs.com/news/369152/musk-tesla-porsche-turbo-taycan/
    https://insideevs.com/news/370530/new-images-tesla-model-s-plaid/

    Meanwhile, I find the VW ID. 3 looks a bit disappointing, especially interior-wise, while the Mercedes Vision EQS looks to set the benchmark for luxuary electric vehicles. Very keen to see the final form of that concept, and apparently there will be a sportier AMG variant too, but Daimler, rather humbly, doesn't seem confident it will be able to keep up with the Taycan.

    As for your opinion that Porsche missed an opportunity to make a people's car, I think it's up to VW stablemates to offer better value for money. In recent years especially, Porsche has been firmly cemented as the conglomerate's prominent sports car make, and I believe they'd like to keep it that way. That doesn't mean that other brands won't benefit from all the engineering work that has gone into the J1 project — see the Taycan more as VAG's halo car and a sign of good things to come. That said, I also find the availability of more truly premium electrics refreshing, and the newcomers are important to the perception people have of electric cars. From Porsche alone, there will soon be the cheaper all-electric Macan as well as the two-door all-electric 718 in addition to more affordable Taycan models. The profit margins on the Turbo and Turbo S are high, while the remaining models will have significantly lower profit margins than ICE Porsches. It's expensive tech.
     

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